“Men Explain things to me” moment last night

[somebrightmorning]

I went to a corporate event last night and sat next to a very nice chap.

We do the same job and towards the end he mentioned the difficulty of getting a remedy from the tech giants but that he’d made progress. I asked whether he had sued Amazon and how they had responded.
He then explained the basic law on internet service provider liability to me (I am senior to him).

Anyway, I feel quite chuffed that I instantly recognised this was a METTM moment. In the past I would have felt a vague sense of powerless resentment. But I’m not sure what I can say next time I come across a METTM in the wild. As to last night, how could I have challenged his stream of verbiage?

I recently told one younger man, mid flow, that I was not his grandmother, nor did I suck eggs!

He looked puzzled. Most of the women around the table laughed! Another man muttered something about me having been rude. The young man stopped looking puzzled and looked very much affirmed! I fear I lost that one, may have made him worse! He was so very young too!

Its a tough one. Easy to lòok joyless.

Try humble bragging - lightly and with humour but really pile it in, (and talk over them) - until they have a lightbulb moment and realise. That's what I normally do and it tends to work. It's pretty satisfying to gain their respect.

Once youre professional friends you can try "Are you mansplaining me?? :) Did you forget I ran the xxx project for 5 years? In person verbally not by text ! and with warm humour..
Then they might even bow down to your experience and ask questions which is also satisfying :)

I work in a quite senior role in engineering and I'm female.

Good luck

I don't think there's a need to belittle someone in front of others though, which I would consider a bit rude. Wouldn't you just tell them that yes, you're very familiar with this thanks, or show your detailed knowledge through your responses?

Agree with Crystal's approach.

Its not belittling, its standing up to them in a friendly way on an equal footing.

Like an interaction man to man would be.

Men dont mansplain to other men as they'd pull them up on it. Man 2 wouldnt be being rude. Man 2 isnt conditioned that standing up for himself is rude. Man 2 doesnt need to be subservient to Man 1s feelings.

I’d treat this situation differently with a man or woman my own age or older, compared to a younger person. I think sometimes this is related to ageism, because I have had it from both young women and young men.

With younger people, I tend to nod and smile along and then ask the tricky questions of them related to that subject.

Either they can’t respond and/or quickly ask me what I think, which can correct their assumptions about me, or they give me an interesting answer back and then we have a more interesting chat than we did before with a bit more respect on both sides.

Ah! Sorry @CalamityJune crossed post x
I thought you meant me.

I thought you might!

I find professional socializing such a chore and so tiring in the evenings that having someone explain something I already know would be relatively pleasant and peaceful. Like when a relative tells the same story for the fifth time and you can just nod and say "ooh". On the other hand, I'm poor at forming connections, and maybe that's why. But oh god, competitive humble bragging and the end of a long day. Are other people on super multivitamins or something wth.

Why is it rude to point out that you're being mansplained to but not to mansplain in the first place? Why can men belittle women but not vice versa? Sod that - the idea that we should respond to being undermined in front of other people by being polite and making sure we don't upset the men.

I would probably have responded to the OP situation by interjecting at some point with "Yes, I experienced that when..." and going on to describe a project I'd worked on that made my seniority clear. I don't think men should be allowed to go unchallenged with this sort of thing, we shouldn't just be smiling and nodding and letting them hold court like the all-knowing sages some of them believe themselves to be.

I work mainly with men and I’ve had them explain pregnancy childbirth and breastfeeding to me. I pull a 🤔face and say thank you for explaining it I’m only female so what do I know.

Oh! I was in a professional space. I was one of the senior, more experienced participants. Neither of the men I mentioned had more than 6 months experience.

Not sure why I needed to be more polite than they were. I am sick and tired of allowing myself to appear 'lesser than' to appease a male who.

Well yes Eoin, as I said, I would show my knowedge through my responses to make them see that I understand the issue fully. But I don't think anyone covers themselves in glory by making sarcastic remarks to a colleague in a professional situation in an effort to embarrass them.

If you know them well and are friendly then humour is more appropriate.

Are you sure that he wasn't just placing too much context in the conversation? I have a tendency to do this to everyone man or woman!

The thing is, it's only women who have to moderate their responses in this way for fear of seeming impolite. Women who speak up for themselves are bolshy and difficult. We can't really win, because either we keep quiet and allow ourselves to be patronised, or we challenge it and we have our cards marked as stroppy. On balance, I prefer the latter, but each to their own.

Several posts suggesting how to deal with this without denting the male ego......

I get this a lot and the technique I've honed is just to look bored by it. Ultimately it's all a power play and I realised it doesn't help me to make a big effort to show that I know more than them. It just makes me look insecure and like I need their validation. I just wait until they're finished and say something dismissive that shows I knew all of this already e.g. "bored sigh Yeah we did the same thing last year". No one likes to feel that they're boring someone and in my experience you automatically get the upper hand once they realise that's what they've done.

I am a known interrupter of men at work. i used to work construction so had to get used to it. It is definitely a technique. Wait until they are in full flow and then just interrupt.
'I asked if you had sued amazon, I know about internet law liability, that's how I know that you can sue amazon...how did they respond?'

Men dont mansplain to other men

They do. Arrogant men mansplain to everyone.

@APerkyPumpkin That's great! You have inspired me to work on my interrupting skills.

I recently told one younger man, mid flow, that I was not his grandmother, nor did I suck eggs!

Yes this.

As a young woman I used to worry a bit about appearing rude, not upsetting people too much and then I reached the "fuck off" point in life and I now slap down mansplaining clearly and audibly.

Not just for me but for my DC's generation because they are often present when this type of thing happens in work type situations.

You have inspired me to work on my interrupting skills.

i recently had the pleasure of working in a small team of 4, the three others being males. I hadn't worked in an all male team in around 20 years, so I really took pleasure in not only interrupting them, in a wide variety of ways, but being the person that asked about new things that they hadn't heard of, because none of them could cope with not being the first person to think of X.

And when it came to new IT, they really hated that I not only had all the gadgets [eg ring doorbell] that they hadn't even heard of yet, but I used all the Microsoft apps and forced them to use them in the projects I was setting up. And having to be the one that explained to them how it worked was priceless. I even had it on my performance plan in the end. To make the others use new IT where it would be most effective.

Mansplainer has not read Debrett's!

Mirror the mansplainer's technique every time so when interrupted be sure to interrupt right back. Mansplainer wants attention, give the attention in order to interrupt him and redirect conversation to where you want it.

"Still talking" jokingly also works occasionally if you are being interrupted, a straight up "please don't interrupt" draws attention to bad behaviour but must be used carefully and really only as an exit escalation.

Vocal interjection can be accompanied by physical reinforcement - if you want an example of how not to deploy this tactic watch Trump.

Vocal interjections (all with !!! and eye contact to rest of the group)
Exactly
So when
And that
I remember
I disagree
Well done
Of course

Physical interjections;
finger point
flat hand in stop gesture or on wrist/arm
lean toward bump/budge up

"Really" - subject change, thousand yard stare, catching waiter's eye for another drink, checking phone together with "I must take this" - all make for guaranteed full stops.

Mansplainer often repeats himself so mirroring could involve rephrasing what he has said in condensed form and adding the extra knowledge he lacks, confusing his presumptions. Amateur mansplainer will take the hint and learn, habitual mansplainer will continue being a bore. Bore is teflon coated requiring firm response.

Manners maketh the man!

www.debretts.com/expertise/etiquette/social-graces/conversation/
www.debretts.com/everyday-etiquette/three-ways-stand-work/

Thanks for the great responses which I’m enjoying.

I had already dropped an unusually well-timed “sounds like being a woman!” remark on him earlier which caused the woman on the other side to spit out some soup :) so I’m glad I didn’t overdo it. As I say he was genuinely nice.

Sometimes you can read of great examples of techniques but you don’t factor in the person-specific elements (what sounds strong accompanied by a sunny smile may sound insecure accompanied by a tense smile). I have a feeling that I come across a bit like Lottie from the Apprentice in real life.

Hmmm, I think what I need is a feminism-literate business coach who could video me.

“Well done”
“Gosh, you’re clever”
“Fuck off. I know this stuff better than you.”
Or words to that effect. Otherwise just walk away.