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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Got a good reply for a prospective parliament candidate

47 replies

GoodMPreply · 22/11/2019 19:31

We are a LD held area and I asked the prospective Conservative MP about retaining women’s sex based rights and this is her reply....

Thanks for the email. This is something I’d like to have a proper chat about, as it is hard to sum up everything in an email. So I will do my best but I’m always happy to discuss in more detail. I think this is an issue that we should be able to have open and honest debate about, without women being vilified for expressing their concerns about the impact of gender self identification on women - unfortunately open debate is often shut down which is not helpful. I am a feminist, and I believe very strongly in women’s rights.

Whilst I support that people should be able to live their lives as they choose, and therefore I support the idea that you can choose to live your life as a different gender from the one which you were biologically born. I am not comfortable at the point that it impacts on the way other people may choose to live their lives. That impact is particularly an issue for women. I agree that women should be able to, for example, request female clinicians, take part in female only sports, be in female only prisons, and that is a position that I will start from in any discussion or debate on this topic.

I understand that trans women have challenges that will be difficult in their own lives, and I think we should support people of all genders. But at this point in time, in the debate, my view is that if you are biologically born a woman then you will have challenges and experiences in life which need to be addressed, and I will be standing up for the rights of those women.

I hope that is clear, I am always happy to chat further about any issues. If I am elected as the MP for [area], I will be the first ever female MP for this area, and that is a role that I take very seriously as we do not have enough female representation in parliament.

I have to say I am super impressed!!!! Never thought I would vote Conservative but I really feel I have been left no choice. If she’d said “fuck off love TWAW” then it would have been the MRLP for me!

I actually feel really pleased I have someone to vote for now (LD for 20 years).

NC as if she’s on here it’s very outing!

OP posts:
midcenturylegs · 26/11/2019 21:22

"if self id gets in it will never go away"

A poster in another thread mentioned we shouldn't JUST vote on feminist issues, other things are important too.
It did get me thinking that voting by elimination might not be the smartest thing to do. If we are GC then we should apply that critical thinking capability to other areas. For me it's about the difficult decision to vote Tory (which I feel I have to given the above quote) when you're a leftie / environmentalist.

A bit off topic, belongs in another thread, but my colleagues and I (academic and professionals in the environmental management field) have been studying all of the manifesto promises in our field). None are perfect. Labour's policies ridiculously un-achievable, Greens' policies sound like they've been written by a teen who has missed every Friday off school. But the Tory manifesto has been written by someone who understands science (this includes climate change) and economics.
So I think Boris is a buffoon, I don't like the Tory party members but on (I) a pragmatic and researched approach to environmental issues wrt to public transport / getting people out of their cars and (ii) having the capacity for at least some of their members to think critically is a huge plus for me.

So 2 gold stars to the Tories from me.

ProTransUK · 27/11/2019 00:06

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T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 27/11/2019 00:07

Aww diddums, are you cross because women refuse to bow under the TRA demands. Sad, isn’t it? Grin

ProTransUK · 27/11/2019 00:10

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BitOfFun · 27/11/2019 00:22

I share your concerns about women's rights being eroded, but I couldn't ever vote Conservative.

In your situation, I would reply thanking them warmly for their response, but add that I still couldn't vote for them. I'd say that I would welcome them raising the debate more publicly.

It's cartoonish to imagine that all Tories are personally repellant, but the overall effect of their policies are very damaging to women and most ordinary people.

BitOfFun · 27/11/2019 00:24

Bunbury rules are always worth bearing in mind on these threads too.

Cwenthryth · 27/11/2019 06:59

I’ve actually decided not to question my local candidates on this. Lab/Tory marginal, and I still really feel I can’t vote Tory because of NHS, austerity, Boris Johnson, and, well, the fact that they’re the Tories, as well as our candidate being a local councillor known for being quite unpleasant off the record.... Labour are the only ones who can beat them here and I’d rather not know at this moment if the Labour candidate (parachuted in, local Momentum lot are not happy with her, which gives me hope!) is a hopeless wokester. I can lobby her once she gets in. Following her on Twitter, keeping an eye on the local news site and just hoping she doesn’t do anything to force me to spoil my vote, which would be my only other option and I really don’t want to do that!

teawamutu · 27/11/2019 07:12

Indeed, BitOf. A timely observation for which I thank you and will keep in mind Smile

ResistSexism · 27/11/2019 07:14

I'm delighted that rad fem fascists are voting with the right

Rad fem fascism Grin Interesting to hear this accusation in the context of Harry the Owl, Maya F, Caroline Farrow -type thought policing. People will draw their own conclusions.

In the UK, grassroots resistance is coming from right across the spectrum.

I have never voted Tory OP but would be seriously tempted to vote for that candidate.

BovaryX · 27/11/2019 07:38

Rad fem fascism grin Interesting to hear this accusation in the context of Harry the Owl, Maya F, Caroline Farrow -type thought policing. People will draw their own conclusions

Well said. But hey, some people seem to have a serious struggle with the definitions of simple words. So using ‘fascism’ with the slightest scintilla of accuracy is going to be an ongoing challenge....

HopeMumsnet · 27/11/2019 09:51

Hi all,
We've deleted some obviously inflammatory posts from last night and have banned the poster as per our guidelines.
Many thanks for not rising but reporting, thus allowing us to deal with the situation at face value. Your co-operation in sticking to our most ancient guidelines is very much appreciated.

dayoftheclownfish · 27/11/2019 10:11

Hi Hope, I think I understand your reasoning. Sometimes, however, I wish those inflammatory posts by TRAs would be allowed to stay. They are such cute examples of attempts to shame women for defending their own interests. This is so ancient in the lores of misogyny, I'm surprised it isn't written in runes ...

YourOpinionIsNoted · 27/11/2019 11:59

Just had a response back from my Green party candidate which boils down to "I didn't know anything about this, I've gone and had a look, fuck me what a mess!". He's said he shares all of my concerns, cannot allign himself with party policy on this, and will be happy to discuss it after the party conference when he can gather more info. Interestingly, he also said that his research led him to believe that there wasn't consensus among the party and the policy was still a 'work in progress'.

Now, I don't think I can vote green after the Challenor horror, but I am glad to see that it's not all TWAW in the Green camp.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 27/11/2019 17:03

Had a canvases at the door, He caught me in rant mode and was backing away looking bewildered.

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 27/11/2019 18:32

YourOpinionIsNoted whilst I’m delighted that he seemed genuinely concerned about the impact on females, I really couldn’t vote for someone who has so little knowledge about a huge issue within their own party.

YourOpinionIsNoted · 27/11/2019 18:36

@t0tally yes, I was quite Hmm that he didn't know anything about something from his own party's manifesto!

However, I've felt very bleak about all this for a long time and recently it has at least seemed that there are glimmers of hope. I will seize any small chinks in the TWAW ideology now, in hope of prising them open later.

Bouledeneige · 27/11/2019 18:44

Hi OP - that is a very reassuring response from your MP. I'm sure there are quite a few women MPs who feel the same (and some men too?) but too many are fearful to speak out in public. Not good enough.

Can I ask if anyone has a template email I can send all my candidates? I'd like to see their responses.

Goosefoot · 27/11/2019 19:19

I really couldn’t vote for someone who has so little knowledge about a huge issue within their own party.

I think keeping it quiet has been how a lot of this stuff has gone without being challenged, even within parties.

It might not be enough reason to vote for someone, but it might send an interesting message if candidates who take a more sensible stance on this issue get votes, even elected, while those who toe the party line don't.

GoodMPreply · 27/11/2019 19:45

This is what I sent

Hello there,

After voting Liberal Democrat at every election I have been eligible to vote in for twenty years, I now find myself politically homeless due to the LDs commitment to reformation of the Gender Recognition Act to allow gender reassignment by self identification. As I am sure you are aware, this will cause huge problems for women competing in sport, in areas of privacy and proximity such as prisons, hospital wards, changing rooms and refuges, and in fighting sex based discrimination at work. As I decide how to cast my vote I was wondering what your stance is on these matters.

Many thanks

OP posts:
YourOpinionIsNoted · 27/11/2019 19:54

Main text of mine below, feel free to use/adapt. This is the one I sent to the Greens, the start was different for the Tory MP but the main section the same. I wanted to be fairly specific and give easily google-able examples.

Like many people, I have become more and more aware in recent years of the pressing need to lessen our impact on the environment. Climate change is a very real threat to our world.

However, there is one issue that currently prevents me from voting Green, and that is the issue of the systematic dismantling of women's rights under the guise of transgender "inclusivity". The most severe attack being that of the concept of Self-ID, that is, a person's right to self declare themselves as the opposite sex, with no gatekeeping. As I understand it, the Green party are intent on making Self-ID law and deny that there is any conflict between trans rights and women's rights.

To clarify, Self-ID allows any man to access services / spaces such as the following with NO medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, NO hormone treatment, NO surgery. As such, a fully intact male would have the legal right to call himself a woman and gain full access to:

* Female toilets (including in schools)

* Female changing rooms (Marks and Spencer are the one of the latest to announce that customers can use whichever changing area in which they feel most comfortable)

* Women's sports (See Rachel McKinnon, Hannah Mouncey, Laurel Hubbard)

* All women's shortlists in parliament

* Women's prisons (see Karen White)

* Women's officer political roles (see Lily Madigan)

* Women's recreational facilities (see Hampstead Ponds)

* Women's intimate care (see Jessica Yaniv)

* Women's hospital wards

* Rape crisis centres

* Women's domestic violence shelters.

Any and all spaces designated 'female' or 'women only' will be open to any and all men under Self-ID.

Despite not yet being law, as the above examples illustrate, many businesses and organisations are already enacting self-ID policies, to the detriment of women and girls. So insidious is this ideology that the very definition of woman, 'adult human female', is now seen by trans-rights activists as hate speech.

It is important to note that when the Gender Recognition Act was created, it was thought to cover only 4-5,000 transsexuals who suffered significant gender dysphoria. However, with the rapid and significant expansion of the 'transgender' concept, the number of people to who this would apply is far, far more, and would include autogynophiles - men who derive sexual thrills from dressing as, and playing the part of, women.

If you could clarify your position on the Green party policy, and your thoughts on this attack on the rights of women and girls, I would very much appreciate your response, so that I may make an informed vote on December 12th.

BitOfFun · 28/11/2019 00:03

👌

Lysistrataknowsherstuff · 29/11/2019 15:44

I finally got a reply from my Green PPC. He didn't really answer all my questions (I had sent an adapted version of WPUK's questions) but instead sent me part of the manifesto, but at the end of his reply he said that my question on single sex spaces was one that was still being debated within the Green Party, but personally he agrees with me.

I would put him as 55-60, so it seems there are still some adults in the Green Party.

Still waiting for Lib Dem and Labour responses. Con (MP) is out and out GC: The seat is so safe and the area so unwoke that he's certainly not going to lose any votes on it.

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