Did I go too far? (Work related GC chat).

[ncGCfeminist]

NC for obvious reasons.

I was at a round-table type event today at work. A v senior member from our global leadership team was there to talk about her expectations of us in our new roles.

One of the things she pointed out was that she wanted us to become "critical thinkers". She mentioned someone once quoting to her that "you should never ever believe what is printed in the news" and "possibly the only thing you can trust is information from live broadcasting (I'm assuming any format)".

Possibly without thinking this through, but knowing that I'd probably never have her ear again; with the Harry Miller and @mayaforstrater cases still running around my tiny brain, I went to speak to her in a break. I asked her about "critical thinking" and outlined a little of our GC stance, mentioned the HM case (which she hadn't heard of but asked about, I think she planned on looking it up) and asked whether or not my company would allow freedom of expression. I should say at this point that I very very much respect this woman. She replied saying that she expected respectful dialogue in the workplace and intimated that outside of work to be careful of that even more so (I think that request was fair).

I asked that if my company were to consider things such as gender neutral toilets that they consider the rights of women to have protected single sex spaces. She mentioned that gender-neutral services WOULD be coming but I am fairly sure she had taken on my point.

I am a little disappointed in myself because I wish that I had not rushed in to saying anything - because in hindsight I'm not sure I had the right language. Not worried about my job or anything (when she mentioned respectful dialogue she stated that she could see I would not do otherwise).

Sigh. Maybe a handbook of how to navigate all of this for the sole breadwinners of families would be useful?!

I’m also sole breadwinner and an academic so it’s hard. I keep doing things like correcting gender to sex whenever I can and making sure my students do the same on their work.

As for colleagues... may have to wait For tenure. It’s tough.

It sounds to me like you hit the right notes! Good job for speaking up I think.

I know exactly what you mean. You seize the moment only to find you aren't ready/carry on too long.

I think it comes down to practice.

It is definitely gets better with practice - I was prone to rant early on when I was trying to spread the word.

The way I look at it now is that we have to take the opportunities that present themselves (which you did). If you have piqued her interest and she goes away and looks up the cases you mentioned in her own time and at her own pace, then you have alerted her to the fact that respectful dialogue often goes in one direction only. This is a good thing for her to be aware of!

I know that the emails I send won't on their own have any sort of impact. But if I can put the opposite view to the one which seems to be progressing without challenge and can give someone a moment to pause and apply some critical thinking, then I feel I have achieved something.

Gentle drip

The Harry and Maya cases have been the most successful thing to help shine a light in a long time. I usually ‘just happen to have written the details down for someone else’ and hand them over. Could you very carefully send her the details, so she knows the correct threads to follow. Don’t say anything that can be used against you, just a note to say ‘these are the names that were being discussed earlier.’ If you do it on paper you could ‘forget’ to sign it, so it doesn’t lead back to you. Curiosity should lead her to reading them, even if she is currently woke.

Didn't realise I hadn't completely deleted the last sentence. Gentle drip probably describes me quite well!

Well OP, you may not have gone too far at work, and let’s hope I didn’t either, but clearly I have on here as my post has been deleted!

I keep on going to reply to my thread, jump back via the app to read others' comments, but all my text gets wiped.

I started conversation with one lady in our office who quickly got on board. Second lady clearly thought we were bigots .... until i sent her the link to Michele Moore's A woman's Place Takes Nerves of Steel talk. Now she's completely on board.

Sounds appropriate in the context and like you did well, but agree with pp - definitely get's easier with practice.

Anyway, what I had written was that I've no idea what her views are, but I suspect that as so far she's had no views on things she will not have known about the court cases this week.

She heads up poss over 6000 people so (and this would be the only way I could contact her) to communicate would be via email. I suspect she has a small army of people to field her emails, even I at a lowly senior grade struggle to get through mine.

Hopefully, and just hopefully, her v strong view on "critical thinking" may help in that she may do some research (and she reads the Telegraph's latest).

Vin - was going to ask what on earth had been written! (Had assumed you were a troll, sorry!)

I keep on going to reply to my thread, jump back via the app to read others' comments, but all my text gets wiped.

Before you jump back, copy and save your words so it’s easier to get them back.

Unfortunately modern critical thinking amongst the woke means that you need to be open minded enough to believe that people can change gender or even sex.

Totally - completely agree but it was her reference to not trusting the media that made me think otherwise. I think she said something about hearing something said once from the media and automatically believing it. Which has been part of the whole TRA / recent Stonewall agenda. (And there are rainbow lanyards afloat so I'm assuming we are Stonewall accredited).

Someone also raised a question about improving the gender gap in the follow-up Q&A session. I was tempted to raise the "but there are 100+ genders, surely we should be recording by sex?" question but didn't. I think I'll save that for another time.

I think you did well OP, it takes guts to bring up this topic especially in a workplace. It sounds like this manager isn't aware of the wider debate, hopefully she'll go and do some research now, become fully gender critical and those gender neutral toilets will be abandoned in favour of maintaining single sex provision for the safety and privacy of women and girls.

Would it be appropriate to send her a few relevant links such as to youtube recordings of WPUK meetings and a few key articles? Because when you google the debate, a lot of biased articles turn up on the first few pages before more critical balanced coverage is shown. Obviously only do this if you think it's a good idea.

Ceridwen- I think for now I should just bide my time.. she has an easy way of locating me via the 1000s of staff she heads up if needs be. It's possible that she may see me following up on anything as being v bull-headed and too self-interested.
Like @FWRLurker I'm cautious - I've not been there for long. And I love this company as they uphold the values I do.

It's really great that you've given me this support though - thank you!

@ncGCfeminist well done for speaking up!

Thanks @BoneAppleTeaa Question though.. if I was ever called in to discuss all of this (and actually I would welcome that), is there anyone who could support me in this discussion? If I feel I don't have the language. Or could someone help in at least providing a standardised bullet-point list of things which I (in a closed room) refer to.
I am an anxious person I guess. For me today was a huge step!

OP, I actually think this is the way to do it, to use the day to day influence to do what we can. There are thousands of us and we all must have our own local impact. Keep going.

Well done ! I think you did the right thing. Little by little....

In should add a correction. @mayaforstater - I tagged it wrong. Maya - hope you're ok

@ncGCfeminist it’s a good question and there are others here that are much more aware of the issues than I am, I think I might start with the Women’s Place UK website?

I have to remind myself that a few years ago, when I was oblivious to the whole issue, a friend casually asked me what I thought of 'all these new genders'.
I cut her off, dismissed her. Labeled her a bigot (in my head) and told her in no uncertain terms to live and let live.

I'm ashamed of that now of course, but it does remind me of what a minefield it all is, and that to even outline the main issues can be fraught.

Now I ease in with the obvious, women's sport, and the transing of kids. I can tell some still think I'm a transphobe though.