Calling every woman in history a feminist

[wherearemypaintbrushes]

Hi all. Originally posted in AIBU but reposting here
I was looking through the feminism tag on instagram (Sort by recent and there's some lovely stuff smile) when I came across a post about women in history. It was the usual people that you would expect, but then they put Mary Shelley there!! I don't understand - if you read about her, she most certainly was not a feminist IMO. So sick of people labelling every woman who did something in history as a feminist, or inspiring. She invented science fiction, but she was not a feminist. As somebody called myself a feminist, I do not see why we would call her an icon. I appreciate that she was a strong woman, but in no way a feminist.

feminist, or inspiring

She was pretty inspiring.

I do not see why we would call her an icon.

You don't see why someone who invented one of the most well known and much recognized monsters of media is an Icon?

She invented science fiction and she just happened to be a woman - it doesn't make her a feminist.

I wonder why you say she's not a feminist, OP? Her mother wrote one of the great feminist polemics, A Vindication of the Rights of Women. Are you saying that Mary Shelley disowned her mother's views?

@royalcorgi with what happened with Percy etc I wouldn't say she was a feminist, albeit a strong woman. I'm sure you can think of other examples like this - not even Mary Shelley. We need to stop calling every woman who did something big a feminist.

Maybe she wouldn't be called a feminist if she lived and did those things today but back then the fact that she was a strong woman does make her an icon.

But don't you agree? Labelling every woman as a feminist?

Well what are the other examples. This example is a feminist in my opinion.

@itchy that one who baked bread and smelt flowers (I can't remember her name for the life of me!!) was most certainly not a feminist either We need to appreciate them as people who have done something while just accepting the fact that they were also women

I commented on your other thread too...but in all honesty that we know a woman's name from that period of history marks them as potential feminists before you even look at their deeds simply because women were seen as property of men and incapable of achieving anything independent of them.

If a woman made big enough waves to now have their place in the history books, she was probably a feminist just by the virtue that she didn't believe she was the property of men and was capable of independent thought and achievements.

That may not be much by modern standards of feminism but it was a huge and brave stance to take when you weren't even seen as capable enough to vote in a corrupt MP!

Feminism doesn't have to mean activism, it's the everyday deeds that make clear you are no man's property, your intellect is at least equal if not superior to men and that you deserve equity for your role in society.

Is this from a feminist reading of Frankenstein? It is seen as a comment on her mother's feminist ideas, but it doesn't say they are wrong - just that they wouldn't work in the society of the time. Which I think is still feminist because it recognises the limitations imposed on women by that society.

On the other hand, I have seen Thatcher labelled as a feminist and that is clearly bollocks. That example fits your argument better.

That is actually very fascinating!! never thought about it that way

There is a long history of claiming the dead to your belief system. The Mormons do it, there's much speculation on the sexuality of historic characters and the TRAs are claiming every historical lesbian as a transman.

There's a degree of sense to it when (in the case of feminists) you are looking at people's actions and achievements to determine their political stance. I suspect many of the historic women we know about would identify as feminist these days but not all, e.g. Gertrude Bell spoke out against the suffragettes although otherwise her actions suggest she believed she was as good as any man (frankly she was a more impressive individual than most). Marie Curie on the other hand had friendships with prominant feminists of the time and was very supportive of young female scientists.

I think that a woman can be a feminist without recognising it, and without upholding many of the principles of feminism.

In an era when women were expected to be self-effacing, yielding and weak, mere adjuncts to the males in their lives, any woman who stood up for herself or for other women, any woman who made people stop and think, was - consciously or unconsciously- a feminist.

There is a tendency to want to label prominent people of the past as part of your movement or cause.

I think it's almost always a bad idea to use a modern term in that way. Withe the word feminist for example, even if someone was a huge supporter of the rights of women, 200 years ago, there are a lot of modern implications to the word which may obscure the person's real views. Better to understand them on their own terms.

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There is a long history of claiming the dead to your belief system. The Mormons do it, there's much speculation on the sexuality of historic characters and the TRAs are claiming every historical lesbian as a transman.
Colette is claimed as a feminist (partly because of a lifestyle well in advance of her time) but said that all women demanding the vote deserved was 'the lash and the harem'

I'm affording Mary her mother's halo.

On behalf of my deceased near-neighbour, buried in St Peter's in Bournemouth:

"Shelley continued to practice her mother's feminist principles by extending aid to women whom society disapproved of. For instance, Shelley extended financial aid to Mary Diana Dods, a single mother and illegitimate herself who appears to have been a lesbian and gave her the new identity of Walter Sholto Douglas, husband of her lover Isabel Robinson."

Also a lesbian ally, (and would help out if they were short-handed.)

"In 1827, Mary Shelley was party to a scheme that enabled her friend Isabel Robinson and Isabel's lover, Mary Diana Dods, who wrote under the name David Lyndsay, to embark on a life together in France as man and wife."

She was her mother's and her father's daughter in every respect.

I think it's an interesting question, and I had a google to see if anyone else had written about it. This seemed like quite an even-handed take:

www.lynn-shepherd.com/blog/was-mary-shelley-a-feminist/