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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex and gender

22 replies

wherearemypaintbrushes · 19/11/2019 11:10

What's the difference? I hear people say that gender is a feeling, but what does that even mean??? Sorry but I am very confused! If it's a feeling, then why are people saying 'more than two genders'?? Don't they mean sex?? but there are only two sexes!! somebody please help me wrap my head around this Confused

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Themyscira · 19/11/2019 11:15

Sex is biology, gender is performance.

Example would be "boy" toys and "boy" colours. There is no biological, scientific reason for a boy to only like the colour blue and play with trucks. He will have his own preferences that are influenced by society, family and friends.

Sex is immutable, it's part of every cell in the body. Male or female, it doesn't change.

Gender expectations change over time and space - what's normal in the UK isn't the same in the USA, for instance, football here is a "boy" sport, and soccer there is seen as girly. Blue used to be seen as feminine and soft, hence why Madonna paintings always have her wearing blue.

Any help?

jewelzzx · 19/11/2019 11:16

Sexy and gender
Quite simply
It's either a girl or a boy
There are NO other genders

jewelzzx · 19/11/2019 11:17

^^ what above says
Wtf meant to say *sex

wherearemypaintbrushes · 19/11/2019 11:18

that does help, but then how do you 'have' a gender? as in, a person saying they're, I don't know, purplegender. How does that work if it's a feeling/performance and not an 'object' if that makes sense

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Themyscira · 19/11/2019 11:20

It's a label, and identity, a mental box. A way to feel unique and special. Humans are tribal, it's a way to find people who think/feel/look the same.

I'm no sociologist but it's an area ripe for study, because there are no definitive answers to that question!

ErrolTheDragon · 19/11/2019 11:21

Sex is a real, biological thing - there are 2 sexes (intersex people have disorders of sexual development, they're not different sexes, anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is wrong).

Gender is whatever the heck a person wants it to mean, as far as I can tell. If you don't understand it - that's because it's incomprehensible.

Gender stereotypes, on the other hand, are social constructs around how members of the two sexes 'should' look or behave.

wherearemypaintbrushes · 19/11/2019 11:23

Bloody hell. My brain feels funny Grin Fascinating.

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wherearemypaintbrushes · 19/11/2019 11:25

how would I use them correctly in sentences?

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ErrolTheDragon · 19/11/2019 11:25

Some people use 'gender' to mean fitting into one of the artificial stereotype boxes, not necessarily corresponding to the sex it 'should' contain. Others use it more like 'individual character'.

Some people claim 'gender identity' is an immutable inherent characteristic - others are 'fluid' and swap daily. For some it's really nothing other than 'individual character'.

Many of the ideas around gender are completely incompatible.

Themyscira · 19/11/2019 11:26

how would I use them correctly in sentences?

Best as @MNHQ for advice on that one, it's tricky.....

LangCleg · 19/11/2019 11:27

Gender is a stupid word and nobody knows what the person they're speaking to at any given time means by it.

Some people think gender is another word for sex.

Some people think it's the stereotypical behaviours and presentation associated with sex.

Some people think it's a social system of power relations by which men oppress women.

Some people think it's an innate essence, similar to a soul.

(I think it's the third on that list but am trying my hardest to never use the bloody word).

wherearemypaintbrushes · 19/11/2019 11:30

Sad It's all so complicated

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HorseWithNoFucksToGive · 19/11/2019 11:40

..how would I use them correctly in sentences?

You could say something like - my sex is female and that never changes, however on Tuesdays my gender is blue haired unicorn essence.

wherearemypaintbrushes · 19/11/2019 11:45
Grin
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NeedAnExpert · 19/11/2019 11:45

It's either a girl or a boy
There are NO other genders

You’re using gender wrongly. Boy and girl are BIOLOGY = SEX. There are only 2 sexes.

Gender is how those are expected to present.

ErrolTheDragon · 19/11/2019 11:52

Use sex when you mean sex. Tbh probably best to avoid 'gender' except if you can make it clear what you mean eg 'gender stereotypes'.

OhHolyJesus · 19/11/2019 11:54

I do t use gender, ever.

Gender stereotypes = sex based stereotypes

Gender pay gap = sex based pay differences or differences in pay

Fucking about with language is partly why we got here.

Themyscira · 19/11/2019 11:56

Unfortunately this conflation between the two words has been happening for decades. Sociology texts, academic papers, laws and policies. The Victorians weren't afraid of using the word sex, not sure why we are in modern times.

UhareFouxisci · 19/11/2019 12:00

Some people use "Gender" as a polite way to refer to the attribute of "Sex" and may assert that there are only 2 Genders based on scientific reality and feel that an assertion that there are more is craziness, as there are only two varieties of cell which can be active in successful sexual reproduction (eggs and sperm) and the sex of any individual refers to which type of cell that individual might (if not prevented by illness or age) produce. Some people in this category might uphold stereotype behaviours which they think ought to be associated with each sex, others may think that such stereotypes are ridiculous and should be abolished.

Other people use "Gender" to describe an inner sensation of the type of person they are, and there may be 50, 100 or 7 billion possible ways that this might be, so the assertion that there are only 2 Genders is offensive and insulting, and effectively insisting that everyone has to fit into a stereotype - but this category can equally include people who firmly believe in such stereotypes and might think that in order to be classed as a particular gender one only needs to be attempting to perform the expected behaviours of the stereotypes associated with that gender, or identify ones inner-sense of self as matching ones own perception of how that gender feels like (which might be based on conscious or unconscious sexism)

For communication using spoken or written language to work, there needs to be an objective universal meaning for each word. A word that can have incompatible meanings to different people is useless.

Themyscira · 19/11/2019 12:07

An interesting image...

Sex and gender
MissingLinker · 19/11/2019 12:16

Sex= Male or Female
In a time long past, I would use gender as opposed to sex when talking in social or cultural terms, as opposed to biological ones. Now the word is open to so many interpretations that even the most proficient of mental gymnasts struggle to understand it so I now often just use "sex" where I would previously have used gender, to avoid confusion when talking to certain people.
E.g sex-based stereotypes as opposed to gender stereotypes.

Awaywiththepiskies · 19/11/2019 14:48

Sex is the biological material reality of the human body: one sex has the potential to conceive, gestate, and birth another human

Gender is an historically specific and culturally constructed set of roles and behaviours, reinforced by social/economic/legal power, which are expected of each sex.

Gender is not innate: it is socially/culturally constructed, and changes over time and space/place.

Gender is a system of power relationships, which is an instrument of patriarchy, used to maintain unequal power between men (dominant) and women (oppressed).

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