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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Anyone can be LGBTQ+'

22 replies

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 13/11/2019 21:43

It's official. I just heard it on The Apprentice.

No need to be homosexual. Or dysphoric. Anyone can join in.

That's nice and inclusive isn't It?

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GeordieTerf · 13/11/2019 21:45

Their ad was all about gay men, which was surprising.

SarahAndQuack · 13/11/2019 21:45

Oh, do fuck off to the far side of fuck and then fuck off again, would you?

EmpressLesbianInChair · 13/11/2019 21:47

How lovely.

I think Yaniv calls himself LGBTQ+.

He & his friends can have the alphabet soup & I’ll just stick with homosexual lesbian.

PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind · 13/11/2019 21:50

I don't get it?

EmpressLesbianInChair · 13/11/2019 21:51

He & his friends can have the alphabet soup & I’ll just stick with homosexual lesbian.

Which is a tautology of course because all lesbians are homosexual but there you go....

What was the point of Stonewall & Pride again?

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 13/11/2019 21:51

I was surprised by that too geordie. Although there were some women doing yoga at one point.

If anyone can be LGBTQ+, if It's just a lifestyle, then how can it be an oppressed minority subject to discrimination?

It makes no sense. And I think It's insulting to people dealing with homophobia and - actually - transphobia.

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GeordieTerf · 13/11/2019 21:53

@SarahAndQuack

Who was that directed at?

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 13/11/2019 22:06

Peter

I think the point is that the Q in particular (but arguably other letters) means that LGBTQ+ activism and representation is now completely open to heterosexuals. It's becoming completely acceptable for heterosexuals to describe themselves as Queer and claim to represent LGB people and claim that they are oppressed as such.

I would say that is cultural appropriation and that it distracts from and masks the real oppression people face for their sexuality.

And tonight on The Apprentice a 'candidate' said as much - 'Anyone can be LGBTQ+'

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CeridwenTheWitch · 13/11/2019 22:09

This is one of many examples of the word 'inclusion' being used in a way that was not intended when the term was initially coined, to create tyrannical, unhelpful situations for everyone.

Inclusion, from an education perspective anyway, was always about ensuring pupils had full access to an education. It was to stop pupils from being excluded due to disability, race, sex, English as an additional language etc. So teachers would differentiate their lessons sometimes four ways so that all pupils could access the lesson, and one of the reasons for teaching assistants.

Now they use the word 'inclusion' to argue that men should have access to women's toilets, domestic violence refuges etc. That if we don't allow this we are 'excluding them.'

It's a bit like adults insisting that they be included in primary school lessons because otherwise they are 'being excluded.' No, these lessons are not for you. You don't miss out on anything by not being included in a primary school lesson, but you would ruin the learning for all of the children. In the same way, men don't miss out by not being allowed into women's spaces, because they already have men's spaces, but women lose out a great deal when all of our spaces become open to men.

Queer theory seems to do this a lot - take one previously useful and helpful term (intersectionality is another good example) and take it way past it's initial meaning to result in something that is the opposite of useful or helpful to society.

So, including men in women's spaces actually excludes women. And by including everyone under the 'LGBT+ umbrella' you are making life harder for actual lesbian, gay and bisexual people who suffered and continue to suffer discrimination and even death in some countries for their sexuality. I know I'm preaching to the choir here but I felt I needed to write this out.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 13/11/2019 22:09

Well, if words mean either nothing or whatever you want them to mean at the time then sure! Or acronyms, in this case.

Not sure what the point is of having a category that potentially applies to anyone who feels like joining in, in terms of it describing anything or telling the reader/listener anything useful.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 13/11/2019 22:11

Not sure what the point is of having a category that potentially applies to anyone who feels like joining in, in terms of it describing anything or telling the reader/listener anything useful.

Exactly. But LGBTQ+ has come to mean 'wears glitter to Pride'.

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CeridwenTheWitch · 13/11/2019 22:12

They're doing the same thing with autism now. There is a growing community of self-diagnosed autistic people online: www.spiked-online.com/2019/11/11/autism-is-a-disability-not-an-identity/

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 13/11/2019 22:20

I mean, I'm the B and I feel like I should step back and let people who're say speak the vast majority of the time, because our social positioning is very different. Why do people who're 100% straight, but with dangerhair, feel like they have a right to move in and make themselves comfy?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 13/11/2019 22:21

People who're gay, I mean.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 13/11/2019 22:31

Is it because it has got a bit more comfy?

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TheProdigalKittensReturn · 13/11/2019 22:33

That and there seems to be a lot of "I'm not one of those boring ordinary people, I'm different and special" going around. I still think we should bring back emo to give kids like that something to identify with, what are My Chemical Romance up to these days?

NonnyMouse1337 · 13/11/2019 22:43

If anyone can be the alphabet soup, then there's no point in the alphabet soup. Abolish the whole thing. Homophobia doesn't exist anymore. Obviously. Hmm

LightsInOtherPeoplesHouses · 15/11/2019 17:44

I mean, I'm the B and I feel like I should step back and let people who're say speak the vast majority of the time, because our social positioning is very different

This. Though maybe we shouldn't? Maybe we should speak up.

Somebody I know seems to change their label weekly. And talks about it and inclusion endlessly, funnily enough they always assume everybody else in the room is straight. I'm not out exactly, but have mentioned women I find attractive so I don't hide it either.

They might not be straight but all the 'look at meeee' stuff does make me a bit Hmm when they're 38.

CranberriesChoccy · 17/11/2019 06:09

I thought there were 2 meanings to that sentence. The other one taken to mean you can't always tell by looking whether someone is gay, bi, trans, etc.

I agree that making everything so inclusive so that we don't risk hurting someone's feelings, we make categories and distinctions meaningless. And that's dangerous when those distinctions were created for safety and privacy reasons or fairness (&safety) in sport.

Uncompromisingwoman · 17/11/2019 07:07

Well some university leaders really are pushing on with the concept - enjoy;

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7693927/Anyone-allowed-identify-black-according-Left-wing-university-leaders.html

CranberriesChoccy · 17/11/2019 14:50

What the hell does "identity" even mean anymore? It's just ridiculous.

Any self-id that puts members of that group at a disadvantage by being part of it should not be enforceable. So people are free to identify as whatever they like but it should not automatically grant them access to that group's spaces or opportunities if it negatively impacts that group. This should apply to race, gender, disability.

Gingerkittykat · 18/11/2019 13:52

I have an aquaintance who identifies as a queer non binary femme who is pansexual.

Just because "they" have always had relationships with men doesn't make their sexuality less valid.

The non binary femme means they are biologically female and dress in an feminine way.

It really does undermine the struggles of LGB people who face real discrimination.

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