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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times News Review article - Sex Change Sorrow

15 replies

BessyK · 10/11/2019 07:17

From an article originally published in The New York magazine by Andrew Sullivan. Great news that increasing numbers of de transitioners are speaking out. Sorry I don't know how to add a share token.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sex-change-sorrow-j3nm9hkzw

OP posts:
Driechdrizzle · 10/11/2019 07:39

I can’t believe the Times is covering it. Who would have thought the Times would help lead the way on lesbian erasure.

Igneococcus · 10/11/2019 07:44

At no point in the article does Andrew Sullivan question gender stereotypes, or have I missed it?

EmpressLesbianInChair · 10/11/2019 07:50

Who would have thought the Times would help lead the way on lesbian erasure.

The Times have been supporting feminists all the way. Janice Turner was at Speakers Corner when TRAs beat Maria Mac up. They were also the only paper to cover butch lesbians during Pride Week.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-butch-lesbians-are-still-battling-societys-gender-stereotypes-nf9js9k6c?shareToken=8d7821d4504295820544ab612526aef3

ImGenderfree · 10/11/2019 09:49

Why does this article support lesbian erasure? It reads the opposite way to me. The article raises several good points about the physical impacts of transitioning including breast binding, stats on female and male transitioning and what may be causing this. He also states that many of those he spoke to who destransitioned are lesbians and that even discussing this issue is seen by some as transphobic. He doesn’t cover gender stereotypes but there is a lot in there.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 10/11/2019 09:57

Why does this article support lesbian erasure? It reads the opposite way to me.

Exactly, me too.

Driechdrizzle · 10/11/2019 10:01

I typed that reply on my phone so it was too short. I mean that the Times helping lead the way in giving coverage to lesbian erasure.

SingingLily · 10/11/2019 10:03

If anything, the article is arguing for caution and a wait-and-see approach, noting that if it's just a case of sexual orientation rather than gender dysphoria, those concerned will figure it out when they are ready. I thought it was a very clear-sighted article. Which is probably why it will be slated.

ImGenderfree · 10/11/2019 10:04

That makes much more sense.

zanahoria · 10/11/2019 10:33

I found the details about the permanent harm caused by breast binding shocking as this is always promoted as a harmless pursuit by transactivists often to very young girls.

MrGsFancyNewVagina · 10/11/2019 10:40

That’s an excellent and compassionate article, but I dare say there will still be screams of horror and accusations of transphobia.

AnyOldPrion · 10/11/2019 11:09

It became part of my identity to be suicidal.

Unsurprising. What a desperately sad article. My lesbian daughter left Tumblr as a teen as she couldn’t bear the competitive angst. I’m so lucky.

2Rebecca · 10/11/2019 13:44

I think teenagers do competitive angst. I loved writing miserable (bad) poetry and obsessing about boys I had little in common with and couldn't talk to as a teenager. I think I was in my early 20s before I got over my tendency to overcomplicate and screw up my life for no good reason.

Goosefoot · 10/11/2019 19:02

I think teenagers do competitive angst.

Absolutely, it can be extremely satisfying to wallow. There are a good number of adults who don't grow out of it, too, they usually become a little more subtle though.

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2019 19:36

By their own accounts, they had been adamantly trans in their teens. One said: “I was the student trying to get a professor fired because he wouldn’t allow ‘they’ and ‘them’ to be used for a singular person in my papers . . . I threatened my parents and friends with suicide. It became part of my identity to be suicidal. I screamed at my parents about this, even though I knew I wasn’t going to kill myself.”

Another went by the pronouns “xe” and “xer” and flew into a rage if she was misgendered. Once they had transitioned, and felt miserable nonetheless, they felt this, too, was just part of being transgender. One talked of “the hunger to suffer”. Another spoke of “using your pain to validate your own destruction”.

So much to unpick here.

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