Gender Neutral toilets at our secondary

[somebrightmorning]

DS1 (gender critical sixth-former at large - all he needs is a dog called Snowy) came to tell me last night that the school has introduced gender neutral toilets.

He assures me that they haven't reduced the number of girls' toilets (though I suspect his amateur Tintin sleuthing wouldn't be very reliable on this topic so the jury's out on this).

So, I surprised myself by thinking that this is maybe a good move. I am aware that (as in society) the overwhelming majority of "trans" kids at the school are girls identifying as boys. If their dysphoria/anxiety/identity means that they are thrown into confusion by using the girl's toilet, maybe it is safer for them to have a gender neutral option.

My biggest fear is for these girls if they go into the boys' toilets as I think there is a realistic chance of them experiencing abuse or sexual assault.

Thoughts?

'As well as', not 'instead of'?

Sounds a fair idea in that case.

I think having them alongside single sex facilities is fine.
Where have the unisex ones come from though, have boys toilets been renamed or are they new?

In theory as long as single sex provision hasnt been decreased as a result it seems a.better idea.

However, it's a safeguarding nightmare depending on the design.

Who's supervising these toilets

Gender neutral is such annoyingly opaque language and schools (and everyone else) need to stop using it. Mixed sex is what they are.

They have opened one in Dd's school too. She was also told they would eventually convert all to GN and everyone boys and girls were horrified.
She has declared she will not use the loo at school ever again if they do. I believe, her she has the bladder of an elephant and will wear an overnight pad for her period if needs be.
It's bloody rediculous. Fair enough open one, but leave seperate male and female loos for those who prefer them too.

My biggest fear is for these girls if they go into the boys' toilets as I think there is a realistic chance of them experiencing abuse or sexual assault.

And how will going into mixed-sex toilets, which boys will also use, protect these girls from the realistic chance of them experiencing abuse or sexual assault?

Fair enough open one, but leave seperate male and female loos for those who prefer them too

Thing is kids have no choice but to be in.school. they cant just boycott and staff have a responsibility to keep the children safe. That isnt always going to be done in a way that kids will understand like or even accept at the time. But as adults it's our job. We know the risks. We have years of experience and adults need to take that hit until the day comes that they can either understand or ir old enough and have life experience enough to make the decisions fir themselves

I think the probability is lower Jelly. Not saying it won't happen but I think the risk is slightly lower than in toilets designated as being for males.

Personally I have my doubts that provision for single six facilities has been maintained (hard to know as it's a proportional)

If they haven't built a new building, they must have reallocated someone's toilet.

If these are as well as then I think that is fair. But as others have said let's call them what they are - mixed sex toilets. I'm interested in the icon they use on the entrance to the toilets? I don't know what a gender neutral sign looks like? If it looks like unisex icon (ie a male and female stick person) would some children mistake these for unisex as opposed to mixed sex?

I've just had a conversation with my DD about the new secondary school being built next to her old one. There will only be one female bathroom and the rest are all going to be mixed, as well as all mixed changing rooms with cubicles.

She's just started secondary and has already had issues with boys. She's just told me she feels so uncomfortable about it, as do most of her female friends, I'm so angry for her, I don't know what to do.

Why, somebrightmorning? Mixed-sex toilets makes it vastly easier for males to prey upon females.

I think the kids in these schools need to be able to complain if they're not happy. Through school councils if they have them or to Governors.
I can't imagine that they are all happy with the change - boys and girls alike.

I am sure that there are regulations concerning single SEX provision for toilets and changing rooms for school children over the age of 8. Definitely look at TransgenderTrend and there is also a fantastic organisation, run by parents, based in Oxfordshire, who’s name completely escapes me, that deals with issues like this. Someone more knowledgable than I will be able to confirm their details, I’m sure.

Safe schools alliance ?

Sarah, yes that’s the one, thank you! I searched for safe schools (couldn’t remember the Alliance bit!), but nothing came up. Maybe we need to do a MN Massive google search campaign?

Would some kind soul help out an old thicko and explain the difference between unisex and mixed sex? Is uni one person of either sex at a time and mixed sex providing for multiple users at a time?

I think unisex/mixed sex essentially mean the same thing. It doesn't refer to the physical set up, but can be used by anyone.

One of the senior schools I went to look around for DS had GN cubicles along a small corridor. So no door into the main facilities meaning unless you were in a cubicle, you were in view from the end of the corridor. The corridor was only as long as the 4 or 5 cubicles on each side plus the basins at the entrance. I thought this was a great idea as it stops kids congregating in the main room. GN traditional layout facilities would concern me, but as others have said as long as there are male only / female only facilities in addition to the GN ones I don't see an issue.

One of the senior schools I went to look around for DS had GN cubicles along a small corridor. So no door into the main facilities meaning unless you were in a cubicle, you were in view from the end of the corridor

And hereby lies the problem. Besides the issue of girls having to wipe piss off the seats before they use it, the gaps under and above the door are a safety feature.

If you were pushed inside a cubicle and assaulted, had an asthma attack,.epileptic fit, collapsed etc no one would see you.

If their dysphoria/anxiety/identity means that they are thrown into confusion by using the girl's toilet, maybe it is safer for them to have a gender neutral option.

If someone is so messed up about the knowledge of what is between their legs, then they need a therapist, not unisex toilets.

If you were pushed inside a cubicle and assaulted, had an asthma attack,.epileptic fit, collapsed etc no one would see you

Is this not the case in every toilet in the world?

Not every toilet.

You stand more of a chance being seen when theres a gap under the door in a busy single sex loo, than a fully enclosed gender neutral one that people avoid because they are often filthy.

Younger children can also get themselves locked in. The gap allows them to climb out

My old secondary had a good kind of set up. I wish I could do a diagram. Basically the toilets were off the main corridor, in alcoves. Six full door cubicles, set around three sinks, all visible from the corridor. The cubicles were designated for girls/boys in their groups of six. It was an anti-bullying/anti-smoking measure.
Nobody seemed to mind it. I think we would have minded if they were unisex cubicles, though.

I've just seen this news item which sounds like genuine thought has gone into it (not near enough to see the actual setup, though):

www.edp24.co.uk/news/gender-neutral-toilets-at-gorleston-s-james-paget-hospital-1-6363629