Dawn Butler on SelfID in Vice

[HDDD]

This article has really wound me up, isn't she peddling debunked stats here? AND the "Trans people have been self-identifying for years – this reform is just to catch up with what has already been happening." is a rather dangerous oversimplification?
www.vice.com/en_uk/article/59n44n/dawn-butler-trans-rights-gender-recognition-act

that's 'vice'.

Perfect example of why I won’t be voting Labour in the upcoming GE.

I’ve agonised about how to square away being GC and voting for Labour when I finally realised- Labour do not give a shit about women; poor, rich or in-between.

Would dearly love for a centrist party to emerge!

Jesus, you know things are bad when you are writing articles for fucking Vice.

Cheers dawn. I was wondering how to put it in a soundbite when I get doorstepped by Labour as I will do in the next few weeks. This is perfect.

I will not vote for you because your women and equalities secretary does not speak for women.

[self censors and reminds self of Mumsnet statement on moderation in particular with regard to trans rights]

What a lovely photo.

Anyone else find the line. ‘Then they came for the Jews....’ ironic from a member of Labour’s frontbench.

What embarrassingly dismal 'journalism'.

Dawn rolls out the crusty old chestnut about 'almost half of trans people in the UK have attempted suicide at least once', and the keen minds at Vice insert a link on that sentence to Stonewall's 'Trans Key Stats'. Which states that 27 per cent of trans people have attempted suicide.

It's like a Year 9 project, done in a rush on the bus.

It's been years since those figures were shown to be flawed. And yet wokestoned lobbyists and politicians still produce them for emotional blackmail (and to distract from less convenient facts, like how the mtf trans population retains a male rate of violent offending...)

I just had to read that - yes totally ironic, but what we expect from the Labour party at the moment, which is another reason I cannot vote for them.

It's been years since those figures were shown to be flawed

Not just flawed, outright lies.

I think those that use the figures just randomly embroider them every time they quote them, since they have no substance.

Butler is worse than an embarrassment to Labour, she's an embarrassment to women. All of us.

I love the way she claims that the Conservatives failed to debunk fears about self ID, then links to an article that claims that nobody would falsely claim to be trans because it would be against the law, without explaining how on earth you would prove that somebody is falsely claiming to be trans.

The most telling line is:

"In all these years there have not been any major problems".

It is really worrying that that Joan McAlpine and Joanna Cherry are the only politicians prepared to grapple honestly with this issue (and most poeple in the UK can't vote for them!)

Oh crikey, she actually links to an earlier 2018 vice article which refers to Challenor and Madigan as experts on "anti-trans" in the media.

She is so far removed from any grass roots understanding of what is going on and who she is promoting that it's shocking.

I have been reading some of these threads with interest. Only ten years ago it would have been impossible to imagine a situation where the Labour Party is actively alienating voters whose support it used to take for granted in the manner outlined in this discussion. I watched a couple of interviews with Douglas Murray, who speaks eloquently about intersectionality, its inherent contradictions and the escalation of its inevitable conflicts. Irrespective of your politics, I think many feminists might find his analysis cogent. Interesting times.

sarahjconnor

I am on a last warning so I had better not comment on that image Sarah, suffice to say that I agree with your sentiments.

She is so far removed from any grass roots understanding of what is going on and who she is promoting that it's shocking.

Even without any assumption of ill intent, it's very difficult to trust somebody who can't talk competently about her subject.