The Glorious Victories of Trans Athletes Are Shaking Up Sports

[zanahoria]

www.wired.com/story/the-glorious-victories-of-trans-athletes-are-shaking-up-sports/

this stuff keeps sounding more like 1984

does the author have any idea how ridiculous they sound?

Sports and life have never been fair.

yes indeed. Why doesn't this apply to trans athletes too?

Wow, I've just found an article from 2015 by Dr Joanna Harper.

Are the scientific papers published by them argued like this?

A. My data shows no male advantage in distance running.
B. Here are the characteristics of distance running that suggest males in other sports might have an advantage.
C. My data should be used to change the rules on male access to female categories in ALL sports.'

Dr Harper, what on earth happened between statement B and statement C??

Surely this has got to peaktrans some people. "How athletically outstanding can a girl or woman be before we no longer see her as female?" = outright, good old fashioned sexism. If women and girls are actually good at something, they're outliers, oddities, and certainly not really female. Perhaps even, 'freaks'.

And that term, 'freaks, and the refusal to countenance being part of that group therefore? Aren't these people supposed to be falling over themselves to be tolerant and inclusive?

They really are hypocrites and liars of the highest order.

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2096122093802241&id=153657598048710

No idea if this ever got posted but seems relevant.

And actually now that I think of it sports was one of the fairer areas of life. There was a thread on here recently about children of the famous thinking they were famous in their own right. And there was general agreement that you can make your child a model or an actor through connections but you can't make them an elite athlete. So sports was fair in that ability really counted.

That ability seems to make no difference now. I am in New England where Miller and Yearwood are taking girls' titles. I have had 3 children go through the college application process, all of them with very athletic friends who were hoping/trying so that their successes would get them a good offer/good money from a good university. I know how this could affect those girls they displaced. It is shameful.

Sports and life have never been fair." Why do people keep saying things like this as if its some sort of gothca?

Dare to suggest to a TRA that maybe they should pipe down and suck it up as it's all part of life's rich tapestry and see what reaction you get.

'How athletically outstanding can a girl or woman be before we no longer see her as female?'

How big a dick does a girl or woman have to have before we no longer see her as female?

I see the 'glorious victories' has been dropped from that article but it remains in the url

I know that in print journalism it's the subeditor who writes the headlines, not the author of the piece. Possibly this was an example of a dissident subeditor taking the piss - which has now been 'corrected'?

It really does sound like a line out of some North Korean propaganda announcement.

Whether tongue in cheek or earnestly meant.

The headline! Straight out of Orwell!

And this: "Which means that at some point the question of who is a woman becomes a cultural inquiry: How athletically outstanding can a girl or woman be before we no longer see her as female?"
Easy answer: when "she" is male.

What a ghastly article.

Ah. So the primary purpose of the female half of the human race having sport is to provide supportive and lovely emotional experiences for people sad that they were born male.

And any female person too good at running around isn't female anyway.

The sexism and contempt for women is downright clanging now. The emperor isn't just naked, he's dancing around helicoptering his dick.

They got viciously ratio-ed after tweeting this article, and the tweet seems to have been deleted.

People know cheating when they see it.

What does 'ratio' mean please re responses? I see it a lot and I'm not sure what it means (dare not join Twitter)

I keep reading the article over and over I can't believe someone could write that and still think oh yea this makes total sense, transwomen are not a problem in women's sports because "life's not fair." Jesus and this from Harper:
It boils down to whom you’re trying to be fair to, Harper says. “To billions of typical women who cannot compete with men at high levels of sport?” Or “a very repressed minority in transgender people who only want to enjoy the same things that everybody else does, including participation in sports?”
Hang on, women don't want to compete with men in sports that's why they have their own categories.
Have I gone mad or something.

Scapa it's the ratio of likes to shares on Twitter.

The emperor isn't just naked, he's dancing around helicoptering his dick.

Yep.

Missed the ratio but the article is interesting

Archived article before they changed it.(due to the ratio.)
archive.is/vw4TI

So which approach is most fair? “Fair is a very subjective word,” says Joanna Harper, a transgender woman, distance runner, and researcher who served on the IOC committee that developed that organization’s current rules. It boils down to whom you’re trying to be fair to, Harper says. “To billions of typical women who cannot compete with men at high levels of sport?” Or “a very repressed minority in transgender people who only want to enjoy the same things that everybody else does, including participation in sports?”

I genuinely don't know which side of the argument this quote is trying to prove

Why should the billions of typical women lose the opportunity to be successful at women's sport so that it can be seen as 'fair' to a small number of transwomen, who would be mediocre in men's sport but who head straight to the top of women's sport? That's not a fair sporting achievement for the transwomen. If it was about fairness, they'd want to compete only against other transwomen. It's not about fairness though is it - it's yet again about autogrlynaephile's need to have everybody affirm to them that the emperor does indeed have clothes.

And - genuine question - where are the transgender people in sports which don't segregate by sex?

Equestrian and sailing - a quick Google for transgender athletes in either draws a blank. Perhaps this indicates that trans women competing in women's sport is more about a desire for public affirmation of gender than equality after all

Incidentally I came across this article. It reckons that the Paralympics get it right by segregating by ability. I actually think it would resolve the issue, any thoughts from anybody else?

theconversation.com/why-it-might-be-time-to-eradicate-sex-segregation-in-sports-89305

I wonder how many trans men are competing and succeeding in men's categories? Surely if it's as simple as one's gender identity and testosterone levels as the marker between categories, then you'd expect the numbers to be similar?

I didn't realise that men can compete in women's categories with such an unfair advantage in their testosterone levels, that's disgraceful.

I don't buy this stuff about how their performance is impacted when they start HRT so they can't keep up with the men. That doesn't mean that they should look to dominate the women's fields. There are consequences and compromises that come with transitioning, and that should mean not being able to compete in sports whilst the categories remain as they are currently. Unfair maybe, but it's even more unfair to the women being cheated out of medals, recognition and prize money by men who think that long hair and painted nails makes them one of the girls.

There are transmen competing in male categories and theres no reason why transwomen shouldn't compete in male categories as things stand. RMcK has said they have switched categories at times fit better competition. That's the thing; trans people currently have legal and practical access to both male and female competitions. Hence the need to resolve testosterone doping by transmen, and an open not male category for transwomen, men and others not appropriate for an XX category or who prefer not to compete in it.

Any sport that is currently segregated by sex where speed and strength are major factors should not be open to transwomen.

There was a program on Tele not long ago with Martina Navratilova where they were discussing this issue and even with hormone therapy, you can still never erase the physiological advantage male-born athletes have over women due to testosterone in their adolescence and early adulthood.

So what's the solution? I don't know, maybe transwomen should compete with men but be given a handicap score if they are reducing their testosterone levels. If they feel it's unfair they could always be told hey, life's unfair.