More mixed sex toilets in Scottish schools

[MrsSnippyPants]

“This is similar to the set up in our new secondary schools and ensures privacy and dignity for all children and young people using the facilities"

Where is the privacy and dignity for young girls who have to use shared sinks to wash blood from their hands?

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/education/parent-anger-midlothian-primary-school-changes-unisex-loos-over-break-820608?

Primary schools ffs. This bullshit needs to stop being forced on children.

It's interesting how in all of these cases there is no consultation at all with the parents which seems quite unusual.

Boys carrying on and peeing in the sinks. That doesn’t surprise me, as the boys used to sneak into the girls’ toilets at my old primary and look over the tops of the doors or repeatedly tap/bang on the doors to annoy and intimidate the girls. This is just giving boys the opportunity to harass girls at a younger age and teaches girls that their self worth is unimportant.

But don’t worry, at the school will get cookies.

No, no, no! What a complete overreaction.

Oops, Imean the school overreacted. Parents are right to react !

If it's all above board and hunky dory why is no one ever told?

And it doesnt comply with the law does it? Unisex toilets must be fully self contained to be permissible in schools as over the age of 8 they need to provide single sex facilities. If they are sharing sinks then surely these toilets are unlawful?

Sinks? “Shared wash trough”

No privacy, no dignity, no boundaries.
The state is doing it’s best to ensure a generation of girls are raised to understand they have no right to any space separate from males. Abhorrent.

The council is now claiming that this situation was always temporary and that girls and boys will use separate loos.

No telling however whether that is in the not-really-separate setup where one room contains sinks in the middle with cubicles to either side and each side for one sex only.

Which is neither a single-sex nor a unisex set-up but just a mixed-sex facility.

From what the council said to parents who complained, they did this deliberately but claimed it wasn't a policy change. In my view it is, of course, as multi-entry facilities must be single-sex by law. Which this setup is not. They've got one of these for each floor. This being a primary school, it would surely not be a practical setup to make children on the other floor walk that far.

www.midlothian.gov.uk/news/article/2843/mayfield_primary_toilets

I notice they say their secondaries have the same type of toilets. I can imagine coming out of a cubicle as a girl and there are three or four boys all in there - even if they are just minding their own business I would find that intimidating.

Mixed sex facilities are known to be more dangerous for women and girls so we are left to conclude that endangering these girls is the purpose of changing from single sex facilities to mixed sex facilities.

I'm in a discussion about this for my son's school.

I've used the for women.scot pro forma letter to request information

Sorry for opening a zombie thread. I may need back up!

I was told at my daughters igh school that the gender neutral toilets were more popular with students and they were boasted about by the welcoming teacher. DD said "I want to use an all female toilet because at my previous school the boys used to spy on the girls in the toilets, thanks."
There is a girls toilet up a flight of stairs.

I'm discovering that the school is being less than truthful about the consultation! I've asked lots of pupils. None of them want mixed sex toilets.

What has happened though is that the consultation was if a few people who were pre-selected and/or volunteered. There was no anonymous consultation of either pupils or the parent forum.

Mixed sex toilets are a success for schools because the majority of pupils will do their utmost to avoid using them. IMHO.

Hi pp that sounds awful.

Our school, thankfully, have maintained single sex toilets even with covid arrangements. Considering the number of rapes (I think approx 200 per year and sexual assaults (in the thousands) I would be asking my kids school why they want to make it easier for girls to be attacked. And why they are making it harder for girls to use the toilets - especially any who have religious requirements in that respect.

Have you got a link to the data to show the school? Have you got any means to get other parents’/pupils views on this written down and presented to the school?

Good luck.

Are you on the Parent Council, OP? You should be able to attend meetings and have it on the agenda, etc.

Hasn't Covid-19 been bloody marvellous for overriding by stealth. Trouble is, we know what they're up to, we're watching

@SciFiScream

I'm in a discussion about this for my son's school.

I've used the for women.scot pro forma letter to request information

Sorry for opening a zombie thread. I may need back up!

Could this help you, @SciFiScream? I know it's a UK government consultation, but it lays out important principles, and not everything can be devolved to the Scottish government!

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/toilet-provision-for-men-and-women-call-for-evidence/toilet-provision-for-men-and-women-call-for-evidence

In recent years, there has been a trend towards the removal of well-established male-only/female-only spaces when premises are built or refurbished, and they have often been replaced with gender-neutral toilets. This places women at a significant disadvantage. While men can then use both cubicles and urinals, women can only use the former, and women also need safe spaces given their particular health and sanitary needs (for example, women who are menstruating, pregnant or at menopause, may need to use the toilet more often).

Women are also likely to feel less comfortable using mixed sex facilities, and require more space.

[then, further down]
The government wants to ensure dignity and respect for all. The Equality Act provides that sex, age, disability and gender reassignment are protected characteristics. This does not mean that gender-specific toilets should be replaced with gender-neutral toilets. But there should be balanced consideration of how the needs of all those with protected characteristics should be considered, based on the mix of the population and customer demand.

Some of those points may refer to caring responsibilities and of course menopause won't affect schoolgirls at your school (may affect teachers, but presumably they have their own facilities, separate from those used by the pupils?). Depending on whether your son's school is primary or secondary, the protected characteristic of maternity may also have to be considered in an impact assessment. Religion, too, if there are any Muslim kids there.

Hope this helps?

(I can't get over having had to think about maternity being a protected characteristic for a schoolgirl. )

Midlothian again....

@RiotAndAlarum that will be very useful thank you.

I will definitely be using that.

It's not just girls who dislike them, two out of my three boys refuse to use them, embarrassed about being seen or heard due to the open plan nature of the design in their school.