The Madness of Crowds

[AutumnRose1]

While this is about a book, it seemed like the best place to post.

I've been trying to figure out why the world suddenly feels so alien to me. Part of that has been learning to listen without prejudice, so I decided to read this knowing nothing about the author.

In terms of ticking alleged victimhood boxes, I tick a few - and I find it annoying that apparently society has allocated those labels to me.

I just wanted to say that I think some of what is in this book is helpful and made me feel less alone. Some of is really against my views - I don't think it's hard to know how to behave professionally and I don't think we need to "forgive" anyone for consistently sexist, racist remarks made as an adult.

But in general, the book helped me dissect how the rollercoaster got here so fast. I've posted here before about not understanding things Because they've become "academic". this book helped me realise that some people really are just talking shite with the aim of disruption for the sake of it.

Plus I felt a bit reassured that there's probably lots of people who feel as I do on certain things but we have to stay silent.

I was particularly interested in the Machine Learned Fairness stuff so will try to read up on that. Or maybe I should crack on with life and try to forget politics. I'm not sure!

Yeah, the Machine Learned Fairness stuff was interesting, as it explains what people have already noticed about e.g. murdered women bringing up murdered transwomen instead. I think there was a thread fairly recently about that.

Machine learning can have an impact though when it comes to searching for candidates for jobs - if most physicists are male, then the algorithm will look for male candidates, unless this is corrected for. There was a programme on Radio 4 about this a few months ago, although I don't remember the name.

I thought the book was disappointingly lightweight, and made a lot of unjustified assumptions and logical leaps when it came to the chapters about specific social justice areas. The introduction and the other interpolated chapters like the one you've mentioned were better, though.

I'm very interested in his idea that the social justice movement is basically a replacement for the lost "grand narratives" of religion and marxism - that rings true for me.

Yes it’s almost as if replacing the void of Religion.

"Machine learning can have an impact though when it comes to searching for candidates for jobs - if most physicists are male, then the algorithm will look for male candidates, unless this is corrected for"

This is in context of headhunting or searching CVs online, is it? I have never had my details online.

I hadn't known about some of the # he mentioned and was really shocked. Also, I am clearer on why people ask so many personal questions. They are trying to place me in their identity boxes. So frustrating.

AutumnRose - I imagine so - I literally only know what I heard when I listened to a snipped of that programme! But I remember it made sense at the time

it’s almost as if replacing the void of Religion

I've seen this suggested several times and find it an interesting idea but also struggle to get my head round it. As a born and raised atheist from a family who've been atheists for generations I just don't feel any need to 'believe', not in religions, not in political ideologies, not in conspiracy theories. My own objections to trans ideology grow from my atheism, I don't do unsubstantiated in any field. I don't and can't support an ideology that has no evidence to back it up, and in trans ideology's case a huge amount of very clear evidence that it is wrong.

Yet it seems that many people do feel a need to 'believe', a desire to have faith in something, anything, no matter how nonsensical or downright dangerous. I just don't get it at all. In fact I consider faith itself to be problematic rather than what the faith is in.

Arnold I reserved judgement on that one as I'm in the same position.

I also find it a great shame that academics put so much research into things. I've been criticised for saying that before, but again, it's the reason why so many people want details of my ethnicity.

The point he made about how close we were to post racial society really resonated with me. I've even worked in a place where the person on charge of talking about any complaints within a particular industry, had to report twice in six months that she'd had no complaints.

We cheered. Now we'd just get told our system wasn't working.

I'll probably get censured for this

But here's a horrible thread that's a great example of what I'm talking about

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3729392-Need-to-find-friends-who-arent-white

As a born and raised atheist from a family who've been atheists for generations I just don't feel any need to 'believe', not in religions, not in political ideologies, not in conspiracy theories. My own objections to trans ideology grow from my atheism, I don't do unsubstantiated in any field.

You maybe are thinking about "believe" with a certain slant, I don't think it's meant to imply something people just accept for no clear reason. What they mean is that almost everyone wants a coherent way of thinking about reality. What things are real and what aren't, how and what we can know, how different phenomena are related. What counts as "evidence". In my experience not many people can manage without some sort of unifying theory of reality, even if it's not something they've adopted very consciously.
Part of that too is many people feel a strong desire to live a good life, to become better people and make the world better. But for those people who are just regular secular folks who aren't strongly connected to any particular way of thinking like humanism or some other named philosophy, where do they find out what that means, and how to engage with it? Probably from whatever passes as right among their peers and in popular culture.

If your ancestors were all atheists how do we know that you can think for yourself?

Sorry that was to Arnold

Anyway, the more the merrier and all that