drag queen pronouns

[ShootsFruitAndLeaves]

just reading this

www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/ee0f89ef-cda1-4870-a77d-87c578d2d6c3

"Vinegar - the drag name of 35-year-old Daniel - talked powerfully about her background during the second episode of the show."

Is this not odd?

Daniel is a man playing a pantomime dame or drag queen or whatever. The character is female, but the background is that of Daniel, who is a man.

If we were discussing the character than perhaps female pronouns would make some sense.

It's also odd that the BBC manages to avoid naming the men in full, and only manages 'Daniel' for this chap.

It's not as if they are claiming to have 'transitioned'.

You wouldn't write about any other piece of acting and be so coy about the actors' names

There is obviously a massive agenda here - if men can play the part of female caricatures and still claim to be men then it upsets the BBC's TWAW agenda in that it shows that these men are just putting it on.

See also here

"Vinegar - an actor who performs on the West End in Everybody's Talking About Jamie "

For some reason they omit that he is credited there as Daniel Jacob and plays 'Sandra Bollock'

www.everybodystalkingaboutjamie.co.uk/cast/daniel-jacob

So this is a man who knows he is a man but who likes to play parts as female caricatures, but for some reason the BBC want to make out that his deliberately ridiculous drag name is something other than intentionally absurd and that he actually is a she and actually is 'Vinegar Strokes'

Would it be too much to ask that they write

'Vinegar Strokes is played by Daniel Jacob, a black gay man. Daniel growing up faced homophobia ' or something like that

The BBC's minds are so open that their brains have fallen out.

Maybe it's the journalist being on the cautious side. I remember attempts to trans any female impersonator - Paul O'Grady was one, I think, because of his former Lily Savage routine. PO'G is quite clear that he's a gay man. Another was 'Conchita Wurst' who is a creation of a gay man. Is this literal thinking (dresses like a woman so must be a woman) even as regards entertainment, something to do with the increased incidence of autism in Trans- identifying people?

I think I saw that too. Was it this one about Vinegar & Sum Ting Wong being brought closer to their families?

www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/ee0f89ef-cda1-4870-a77d-87c578d2d6c3

I think the report used she/her because it was about their drag characters. There has been controversy on Ru Paul’s drag race because very few transgender people have appeared on it until recently and Ru Paul was even accused of transphobia because of remarks that he said were taken out of context.

Have added link to Pens News - could only find this or the Guardian - to show source but here is clicky warning.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/09/15/rupaul-says-his-controversial-remarks-about-transgender-people-were-taken-out-of-context/

(If you do read it you will see a familiar name refusing to accept Ru Paul tweeted the wrong flag.)

I think the two people involved see themselves as gay men when they are out of drag. I liked the photo of them embracing each other with no make up on. As Ancientlights says, there is a tradition of men who definitely identify as men dressing in women’s clothes but now it is assumed they are trans when they may not see themselves this way.

Maybe it's the journalist being on the cautious side

Using the correct sex related pronouns for a 💅 translady 🧚‍♀️is literal violence.🥊

Whereas accidental use of the wrong pronouns for a normie ... meh Official Beeb Shrug 🤷🏻‍♂️... unimportant and booooooriiiiing!!! ... like everything else to do with normies....💤

He talks about the history of his drag character on the programme, he isn't talking about his own history. I don't know, if in a soap there was a man playing a role, when writing articles about the character would they keep referring to the character as he or she?

I think that you're over thinking it and being offended for the sake of it. Have you ready any other interviews with drag queens ever? From any publication. They generally all use the female pronoun.

Have you ever seen Drag Race? Either UK or US? Generally the queen's are referred to as 'she' and 'ladies' all the way through. Of course they are men. No-one hides from that. But on the show they are always referred to as their drag names, even out of drag, so are using the feminine persona. It's for consistency and so that you can root for a character.
The article actually refers to Vinegar as Vinegar, and just mentions the guys real name in passing. If the interview is done with Vinegar rather than Daniel, then it's done using she pronouns as that's who is giving the interview.

Drag Queens aren't like actors in that they have a real name and play a variety of characters, so you need to know their real name. Drag Queens create a character and become them when in drag. This character is separate to them and their personality as Daniel from London.

Look at Alyssa Edwards. By day he is Justin Johnson. Owner of a dance school, referred to as he/him by everyone. By night he's Alyssa Edwards and discussion uses female pronouns.

"Drag Queens aren't like actors in that they have a real name and play a variety of characters, so you need to know their real name. "

you wot?

he's currently both 'Sandra Bollock' and 'Vinegar Strokes'. is that not a variety of characters?

"
He talks about the history of his drag character on the programme, he isn't talking about his own history"

What?

'The drag performer, from Birmingham, explains the pressures of coming from a Chinese-Vietnamese immigrant family: "I am the first child and it was almost like I was the flagship of the family. I never thought I could be anything other than the model child."

During the show, the performer revealed her parents still didn't know about her sexuality or career - even though she's in her 30s.

"I still love my mum and dad but I just keep this side of my life away from them," she said in episode two. "They still think I work as a marketing exec at some company in London. They don't know I'm gay. And they don't know that I live with my partner of five years." '

that's about his own history.

it's not at all about his character

So is he speaking about the backstory of his female character and saying she is gay, ie. a lesbian, and the parents of the character don't know this?

Or is the male performer of the female character gay in real life and his parents don't know? (Or both????)

I swear I need more coffee and a lie down...

I did laugh that he posted the flag of trains 😂and those who must never have hurt feelings were all po-faced about it

I’ve known lots of gay men refer to each other as “she” and I always thought drag queens were referred to as she when in character but we all knew they were men and it wasn’t taboo, in fact it was the point.

The BBC are in that group of people who are terrified of causing offence. I bet they could just about bring themselves to write Daniel but not to mention Daniel’s sex in case its transphobic to point out that Vinegar is a bloke.

X posted. Oh yeah it is odd reading that about the family history and hearing her but I’m assuming it’s cos at the time of the interview “the performer” was in drag? It’s all very confusing

If the interview is done with Vinegar rather than Daniel, then it's done using she pronouns as that's who is giving the interview.

I really think you have misunderstood and shoots is correct, e.g.

"I rang my dad and said: 'OK, I'm coming back home this weekend - and I'm bringing my boyfriend with me.'"

If that was the drag character talking she'd be a straight woman talking. There would be no need to worry about telling her family and those paragraphs would he a weird level of detail for character background.

I agree, the article is very odd to keep refering to the men as if they are their drag persona in every context. That's quite different from refering to the character on a show.

Ru Paul has has loads of abuse from the uber miserable woke TRAs. How the hell can they be the most oppressed thing ever ever if Drag Race is so popular etc etc
Yawn
✊🍆💦

It's because they use Miss on the show, based on the pageant circuit.

I think the language structure of Newspeak can be a bit confusing all round.

On RuPauls drag race all contestants are referred to as her/she in or out of drag.

"Vinegar Strokes"? Bleurgh. I really dislike the mainstreaming of sexualised entertainment.

'Sandra Bollock'

Seriously?
What gives them the right to disrespect a female actress like that?
And this is in the west end?

That too, Fraggling.

Elton John called Graham Norton 'her' on Graham Norton's show - gay man to gay man as someone mentioned upthread