Issues of poverty are being neglected by social justice movements because of the overwhelming focus on sexuality...

[MaryRoseSatOnAPin]

...a comment heard at a conference today.

Would you agree? The person who made the comment was speaking from a Latin American context, criticising the Western focus towards the developing world. Has the West disappeared down a wormhole of LGBTQ+ rights whilst people in the global South, ignored, continue to starve?

I'm an avid lurker on the feminism boards, but haven't posted before. Asking here because you are a knowledgeable bunch - someone, somewhere must have written articles on this, but I can't find anything! It is a controversial viewpoint, but I'd be interested to read more.

Although having said that I’m listening to Douglas Murray’s book at the moment and some of the things he says make my eyebrows recede into my hairline

Me too. I'm nearly halfway through. I don't agree with everything in it but it's fascinating. He covers the replacement of class struggles with identity groups (LGBT, race, sex etc). Most interesting book I've read in ages.

We have, ironically, arrived at a point where the self-identified left (aka neoliberals) won't platform the actual left, so you can only read left wing material on right wing websites.

@Imtootired

For a local campaign group in a small northern English town with rising homelessness and child mortality, I'd say that campaigning about Palestine was both pointless and an utter vanity project.

Yeah, all sources are equal! Who needs transparency or verifiability! These are great sources, the best sources! All other sources? Losers! And nobody knows sources like me!

Give me strength...

Totaly agree, indeed the person who raised the issue, being from latin America must feel isolated from Western european support, as so much of European aid seems directed to the African continent or the Indian sub-continent. Poor South America does not get a look in.

In issues of homosexual rights and fighting persecution on sexuality (I will not buy into Ligbit) in the west it is one heck of a lot better (or less bad) than a great many developing countries.

I hate the phrase "First world problems" but there are times.....

Completely agree that 1st world is navel gazing by addressing sexuality and genders. It’s because of it that we stopped progressing on big issues like poverty, hunger, climate/environment for 15yrs. (Late 90s to a couple years ago). It’s frustrating beyond belief and honestly why the phrase “first world problem” was coined.

For a local campaign group in a small northern English town with rising homelessness and child mortality, I'd say that campaigning about Palestine was both pointless and an utter vanity project.

Like I say, wouldn't recognise actual left wing internationalism if it got up and slapped them in the face with a wet fish.

Actual liberation movements - that is to say, not bourgeois identity navel gazing - have always had an internationalist perspective.

Here is a recent film, Nae Pasaran, telling a story of leftist organising and international solidarity featuring Scottish factory workers and Pinochet's regime in Chile.

naepasaran.com/

I'm entirely sure you've never heard of either the film or the story. Incurious is as incurious does.

Reading/listening to stuff doesn’t mean we are obliged to agree with it (at least, not yet, thankfully), Bernard!
Although I do like what he says about hardware software issues (that being gay or trans is currently accepted as a born-this-way hardware issue, yet being female is seen as an optional software issue - which obviously makes no sense (and might be arse-backwards, although I don’t know much about the current nature/nutrient thinking on sexuality - assume it’s like most human behaviours and a bit of both).

The current women’s rights debates are what led me to question the left/right approved source narrative - Julie Bindel, working class, lesbian, feminist, campaigner for women in the prison system, fighter of Violence Against Women and Girls, now more likely to be found in the Soectator/Telegraph or Times than The Guardian or Independent (my previous preferred news sources).

And The Mail on Sunday (and more recently, The Mail, due to editor changes) report stories of violence against women that barely anyone else will touch (excepting the Mirror, on occasion). Without that, the We Can’t Consent to This stories would never be compiled. Sure, we need to get them to quit publishing the bikini clad holiday snaps of victims, but the fact that they do doesn’t mean we shouldn’t read the stories and stand in solidarity with their families/fight for longer sentences for the perpetrators.

I used to think left=goodies and right = baddies, now I don’t think it’s nearly as clear cut. Brexit has exposed that (I know lots of working class people who voted leave and the tendency of some to dismiss them all as racist/old/stupid was innacurate and overly simplistic).

Unlike many other FWR posters I do still remain a labour member (and an elected Momentum officer locally) but I’m definitely examining every one of my political position with greater intellectual rigour than before.

Anyway, back to the OP - MaryRose I don’t know how this plays out in terms of the Global South but if you find anything interesting, do report back (and don’t worry about the source, we can pick apart the contents together). One thing that does strike me is that women in developing countries (and in refugee situations) are asking for greater sex segregation, while the west seems hell bent on removing it.

I worry that if we can’t hold the line here, women elsewhere (who are yet to even approach equality in terms of education and political representation) will have no chance at all.

@LangCleg

What does any of that have to do with stopping local kids dying?

It's way more exotic and exciting, than doing something that helps the kids causing mayhem on the local estate, I'm sure.

I agree.

I tend not to comment much on international matters as I'm aware I am not well enough informed/lack the experience but even within the UK real issues are being overlooked due to an obsession with identity politics (or whatever you wish to call it) that constantly tries to shoehorn US problems and values into a context where they don't apply. Trans privilege activism is merely the loudest and most obnoxious variety.

Meanwhile no shits are given about people with learning disabilities, or homelessness, or poverty, or the mess of the prison system, or the lack of support for domestic abuse victims, or (and this one is most personal for me) serious mental health issues.

Indeed these woke idiots are creating a mental health crisis to go on top of the mental health crisis that has existed pretty much as long as I can remember. In doing so taking resources away from those in desperate need who are the least able to advocate for themselves. But I guess schizophrenia and serious depression with psychosis aren't 'galmourous' compared to middle class males parading around in bad wigs.

It’s about solidarity with working people in other parts of the world. Some people don’t like this argument because it’s quite western-centric but the money spent on “defence” and given to extremely questionable allies in the never ending wars on terror could be spent on social programs. Plus like I said Western governments are giving open support to this genocidal government in Israel so whether you’re in a deprived area or not I think it’s important to say that the people actually don’t support it. The same system that puts profit over humanity is to blame in both situations. Some of the most inspiring movements have been oppressed groups supporting each other and giving encouragement and support

This is the best thing I’ve ever read on white feminism. www.feministcurrent.com/2017/07/26/white-feminism-thing-gender-identity-ideology-epitomizes/

Social justice movements are overrun with bourgeois fools banging on about "western colonialist" attitudes while exemplifying those attitudes themselves.

It’s pure projection.

Wouldn't know proper leftist internationalism if it got up and slapped them

Once the theory and proliferating identities are stripped away, all that’s left is boring old class struggle. Same old, same old.

@EmpressLesbianInChair
Thanks for white feminism link. I was nodding the whole way through. I have always disliked the term not just for the reasons in the article you posted but because I felt like by calling all feminism to date “white feminism” it was also a backhanded glory grab. It erases all the work of nonwhite feminists in the past by creating a false narrative that feminism to date has been white women fighting for other white women. Its real history includes black feminists and feminism.

Thanks for all your responses, and all the links too - I'm working through them!

One article I came across was this in The Nation. One of those featured is Walter Benn Michaels, who published a book in 2006 called The Trouble with Diversity: How We Learned to Love Identity and Ignore Inequality which I will add to my reading list..

It does seem to be an argument which feeds into the rightwing, neoconservative agenda, but perhaps this is in part due to the likes of Douglas Murray claiming that issues of identity politics simply do not exist, or that to care about poverty, homelessness etc. is necessarily to ignore other issues around sexism/racism.

I don't believe it is a simple either/or dichotomy. It absolutely is possible to care about issues that directly affect my community while being concerned about the situation in Palestine, to give an example from upthread. To suggest otherwise seems a bit...infantilising. Doesn't it?

It was bollox That’s a different symbol.

its a rum one is'ent it. the most left people eveh, yet economic inequality just isent sexy enough.
this video touches on that in some places (and is interesting anyway)

It is an either or situation at the moment I'm afraid.

If no time is left on the agenda of a local Labour Party meeting to discuss local problems, because its full of other shite.

It's way more exotic and exciting, than doing something that helps the kids causing mayhem on the local estate, I'm sure.

The point is going so far above your head it's embarrassing.

Once the theory and proliferating identities are stripped away, all that’s left is boring old class struggle. Same old, same old.

Indeed. Speaking from a domestic rather than an internationalist perspective (sorry OP) and continuing the film references - can you imagine this bunch of bourgeois self-identified faux leftists doing another LGSM and supporting striking workers?

This morning I listened to the news about universities' neglect of race/ethnicity/religion harassment (80% of hate crime)... Really resonated as I work in one and our student waiting area is ablaze with LGBT posters and flyers and virtually nothing on support for those students. It has entirely taken over in these environments...

@LangCleg

Really? Or is it the fact that I'm not interested in your pseudo-intellectual
self-congratulatory bollox?

I get it, you know some shit. Have a medal.

Anyway.

The point.

In the past few weeks there were two particular stories that caught my eye.

1: they took the fanny symbol off fanny pad packets. Huge fuss! Vapours! Scandal! I'm under attack!

2: Rise in infant mortality. Tumble weed...

The left is fucked.

Really resonated as I work in one and our student waiting area is ablaze with LGBT posters and flyers and virtually nothing on support for those students

Which is crap. I’ll bet you’ll find there’s no support for the L either though, and not a lot for the G or B. The only important letter is T.

I was somewhere last week and saw a poster for a diversity officer election, trans was their only issue. In the area where they where the number of poor pupils will outweigh the trans pupils 1000:1.

Gosh you really don’t like women, do you tumbleisatwat? The contempt is bouncing off you.