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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"the most vulnerable people in our society"

36 replies

Karabair · 20/10/2019 18:55

Saw this on phrase on Twitter by someone telling women not to notice that TRAs had nailed a dead rat to a rape crisis centre.

For a lot of women the so-called vulnerability of MTF trans seems to be their justification for completely ignoring women's needs, interests and of course, oppression. Apparently women and girls aren't vulnerable, whilst MTF trans are. Two of us die at the hands of men every week, countless women and girls are raped and sexually abused by men more powerful than us - we are, sadly, vulnerable, it's a fact of life at the moment, but it doesn't count.

Why are MTF trans seen as more vulnerable than oppressed people, especially women? Where does that thinking come from?

OP posts:
FrothyDragon · 22/10/2019 22:53

When two women a week (*the rounded stat) are killed by a current or former partner, then women are vulnerable.

When a close woman friend, who practices martial arts, is tough as shit, and takes no shit from anyone is trapped in an abusive relationship because she fears the reaction when she does end things, then women are vulnerable.

When women are harassed over social media at a rate that we had to petition Twitter to even add a reporting method, after Caroline Criado-Perez reached the volume of death and rape threats that she did in a twenty-four hour period, then women are vulnerable.

When you consider the manner in how you plan a date differs to how the men you're dating are planning a date, that speaks volumes about women's vulnerability. I make a point of ensuring my friends know whatever I know about a date before I go, and one of my closest friends contacted me about one man I'd dated to inform me that he was abusive towards his mother. Yes, his mother. His choice of target for abuse was not a coincidence.

When men message you with graphic sexual messages over dating apps, then women are vulnerable.

When women are more likely to be in temporary or part-time positions because of their sex, then women are vulnerable.

When women are facing losing their jobs because women take the majority of caring responsibilities, meaning they are more likely to miss shifts due to familial commitments, then women are vulnerable.

Nalt Textiles in Vietnam reduced its staff turnover by 10% by improving health programmes and childcare facilities. Who do you think this mostly benefited?

When the leading cause of death amongst women and girls aged 15-19 is complications in pregnancy and childbirth, then girls are vulnerable.

When child brides, in all countries, are less likely to complete education, then women and girls are vulnerable.

When women experience high levels of harassment when working in male dominated fields, then women are vulnerable.

When the rates of girls married as child brides increases during conflict, then women and girls are vulnerable.

When the prosecution rate for rape is falling, then women are vulnerable. When the conviction rate for rape is falling, women are vulnerable

When child brides are placed at an increased risk of trafficking, then women and girls are vulnerable.

When women are more likely to live in poverty, overall, then women are vulnerable. And following on from something I've touched on several times in this thread, child brides are more likely to live in and remain in poverty. Women are vulnerable.

When girls who were married before the age of 15 are 50% more likely to be the victims of domestic violence, then women and girls are vulnerable

When organisations have actively recognised that ending child marriage could reduce the risk of violence against women and girls by 10% in some countries, then women and girls are vulnerable.

When women and girls are overwhelmingly the victims of honour based abuse, then women and girls are vulnerable.

And when men are nailing dead rats to rape crisis centres, it doesn't take a genius to work out who's vulnerable.

FrothyDragon · 22/10/2019 22:54

^ That is not even an exhaustive list, btw. Nowhere near.

FrothyDragon · 22/10/2019 23:10

And hell, don't get me started on how autistic women are treated by medical professionals. There's the underdiagnosis, for starters.

A black autistic woman has marvellously been calling out the neurodiversity movement on its racism/misogyny over the past few months. Not GC, but for anyone who is interested in following the experiences of autistic women of colour, @ beingkaylasmith is well worth a follow.

NotTerfNorCis · 22/10/2019 23:21

I don't think transwomen are vulnerable or oppressed. TRAs on Twitter often say that, in real life, people treat them as their desired gender role without any problems. So where is the oppression?

Pota2 · 23/10/2019 06:58

Well it depends on whether you just see vulnerability in terms of physical strength. In that case children, many women, the elderly and disabled people would be vulnerable to a potential attack from those physically stronger than them.

However, I don’t think that’s the meaning of vulnerability that is being used when we refer to vulnerable people. I would class people with serious MH issues, homeless people, drug and alcohol addicts, women in abusive relationships, women in prostitution as being vulnerable with their vulnerability not being limited to physical harm. It’s also about having chaotic lives, being the target for predatory people and being excluded from society. Most street homeless people are adult men but I would class them as vulnerable. Maybe they would be able to hold their own in an attack, but that’s of limited use if you have to sleep outdoors and could be set upon when asleep.

I know one trans person who has a catalogue of MH issues, which means said person can’t hold down a job and has been homeless. They would meet the test for vulnerable adult without a doubt. If attacked by a woman, they could no doubt hold their own. An attack by three grown men at once, not so much.

If physical strength is your sole measure for whether a person is vulnerable then your assessment is correct. But according to your model, a 6 ft tall 13 year old boy also wouldn’t be potentially vulnerable, which is untrue because children don’t have sufficient emotional maturity to cope with certain situations.

And I am not saying that being trans itself makes a person vulnerable but having a load of MH conditions including suicidal ideation and self-harm does. Someone like Jane Fae or Shon Faye though- not so much.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 23/10/2019 08:21

Surely children are the most vulnerable group?

Birdsfoottrefoil · 23/10/2019 09:25

Pota I get what you are saying but it in these cases the response to this sort of vulnerability is proper mental health support. Including to come to terms with their sex or to control their sexual fetish. Not expecting everyone to indulge them/live in their fantasy world.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 23/10/2019 09:40

You'd be a lot safer as a six foot five mentally ill person than a five foot two mentally ill person.

Differently vulnerable.

I have a (admittedly not 6'5") brother with learning difficulties. He is bigger and stronger than me, but, mentally extremely vulnerable - people have been stealing money from him, persuading him to sign up for mobile contracts/buy stuff on HP for them/take out loans for them/drive them around for hours etc. because he is trusting and easy to manipulate.

Being big and strong doesn't make being vulnerable impossible, just makes you vulnerable to different things.

Having said all of this, being vulnerable also shouldn't be a free pass to do whatever you like.

SnuggyBuggy · 23/10/2019 09:43

Nailing a dead rat to a building is really disturbing behaviour.

allmywhat · 23/10/2019 09:49

I have a (admittedly not 6'5") brother with learning difficulties. He is bigger and stronger than me, but, mentally extremely vulnerable - people have been stealing money from him, persuading him to sign up for mobile contracts/buy stuff on HP for them/take out loans for them/drive them around for hours etc. because he is trusting and easy to manipulate.

This is very upsetting, so maybe I'm an arse for pointing out that if he was your sister, you'd have to worry about people with even worse intentions taking advantage, and the sexual assault rates for women with intellectual disabilities are off the charts. I think it's a relevant consideration in terms of the discussion, but I don't want to downplay the awfulness your brother goes through. I'm sorry.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 23/10/2019 10:01

allmywhat No, it's fine, and yes, whilst we have to worry about him getting someone else pregnant, we don't have to worry about him getting pregnant himself. He isn't as vulnerable as a woman in his position would be.

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