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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

interesting article on MN and Flora

17 replies

Gone2far · 19/10/2019 09:11

Robert Shrimsley has written an interesting article on this today, in the colour sup of the FT. It's behind a paywall, so no point posting a link, I'm afraid.
It starts off discussing the situation between MN and Upfield, then goes on to talk about how this opens up a whole new area for big companies, having to tread a fine line between annoying activists and annoying consumers. Anyway, worth a read

OP posts:
OldCrone · 19/10/2019 09:33

If you search for something like "mumsnet flora ft" then click on the link to the article it might get you past the paywall (it worked for me).

Gone2far · 19/10/2019 09:36

thanks

OP posts:
boatyardblues · 19/10/2019 09:37

I just got past the paywall using OldCrone’s tip.

Wonderbag · 19/10/2019 09:40

”It’s kicking off in the white fats and lards aisle”
Grin

It’s a good article
(I just googled Mumsnet flora ft too)

OhGodWhatTheHellNow · 19/10/2019 11:26

Didn't work for me, just hit subscription page, but 'mumsnet flora ft' did come up as the top search term on google!

Can anyone summarise?

NeurotrashWarrior · 19/10/2019 20:06

Yes it is good.

Good last line!

www.ft.com/content/26475a0e-efa9-11e9-bfa4-b25f11f42901

NeurotrashWarrior · 19/10/2019 20:07

I found it by googling as described; my link doesn't work but thought I'd try.

Lysistrataknowsherstuff · 19/10/2019 20:25

I've found the best way to get round the FT paywall is to go to the FT feed on Twitter and click through - it doesn't seem to be paywalled.

twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1185481225206673408?s=20

ScrimshawTheSecond · 19/10/2019 20:40

Ha! Good article. Thanks, oldcrone, the googling worked for me.

Summarising - a witty look at how activism may affect capitalism and advertising, with boycots and counter-boycotts. Activists v consumers, type of thing.

 'the boundaries of acceptable speech are being redefined away from pure prejudice towards anything over which a group takes offence. If the issues do not affect the core business, most companies are inclined to avoid controversy. '
Brittany2019 · 19/10/2019 21:15

Whilst googling this (thanks OldCrone) I found out that Lipstickalley has a largely supportive thread about us, which I found very interesting : www.lipstickalley.com/threads/furious-mothers-boycott-flora-margarine-after-it-pulls-its-adverts-from-mumsnet-in-transphobia-row.2862612/

MagneticSingularity · 19/10/2019 21:30

It’s very astutely observed in that it gets right to the heart of cancel/no platform culture pointing up, as the makers of Flora may have learned to their cost, there are actually few gains and potentially a lot to lose for most companies taking sides in polemic issues. Upfield opened themselves up to the counter accusations of less than ethical practices and might have been better just ignoring the original complainant or pointing out ‘We’re actually just in the business of selling margarine ma’am. Perhaps you could direct your complaint to the company running the site in question.’ Buck passed, hands washed, on with selling emulsified palm oil.

exLtEveDallas · 19/10/2019 21:35

A C&P for those who can't get to it:

Life & Arts

Mumsnet and the great margarine boycott
Flora fleeing the parenting website is about corporate capitulation not transgender activism

© Lucas Varela

October 18, 2019 3:00 am by Robert Shrimsley
I can’t believe they’re so bitter. Type “Flora” into the search box on the Mumsnet website and enjoy the fury. Regulars on the parents’ discussion forum are in a rage after the maker of the best-selling marge said it was ending its association — that’s ads to you and me — with the site. Yes; the fat is flying, or fleeing. Mumsnet has been deFlora-ed.

Mumsnet’s offence was allowing discussion of transgender issues. A trans activist saw and was offended by some of the posts, tweeted out an angry response urging followers to boycott the marge and, bada bing, the website was iced by Flora’s Dutch parent, Upfield.

It turns out that Upfield takes human rights so seriously that it can no longer be associated with any site anywhere that ever allows anyone to say anything that upsets people. So I guess you also won’t be seeing any association with Facebook, Twitter or any significant news outlets.

Now angry mums are retaliating, with calls for their own boycott. It raises the ugly prospect of the whole thing being fought out in our supermarkets as Mumsnet users bulk up on Bertolli while trans activists flock to Flora. It’s kicking off in the white fats and lards aisle. The floors of Tesco will run yellow with vegetable oil.

To be clear, Mumsnet itself did not say anything transphobic but, being a platform of debate, it allowed others to discuss gender issues in a way that someone decided was transphobic. The site has moderators to remove offensive posts but Upfield argues that the controls were not effective enough.

Whether the comments were transphobic or just remarks trans activists dislike may be arguable. In general, my starting point is that trans people have faced years of appalling abuse and prejudice and so the community can hardly be blamed for hitting back now people have started to listen. But it is also true that some trans activists have a record of aggressively trying to silence legitimate debate.

In truth, however, this is not really a story about trans activists. They just happen to be the campaigners in this instance. It could just as equally have been another minority-rights campaign or a religious group or, in fact, anyone with an axe to grind, a few hundred followers on Twitter and a line to Stop Funding Hate, a campaign that exists to pressure advertisers.

What it is, is a story of corporate capitulation. It is a tale of how a market-leading food manufacturer fled at the first whiff of grapeshot. Perhaps Upfield really believes it is doing the right thing. Perhaps it has calculated that the trans activists and their supporters were more likely to carry through a boycott than the ordinary Mumsnet users. Flora certainly meets one of the criteria for a boycott in that there is a ready supply of alternatives.

But this trend is growing and advertising boycotts can work. Fair enough; why shouldn’t people withdraw support from companies that do things of which they disapprove? But successes mean this form of activism is only going to grow, which means more and more businesses are going to face criticism and attack.

Advertisers are the weak link for those targeting a media business. Most advertisers want a quiet life, where the only issue talked about is their campaign. Flora may care deeply about the issues raised or it may just care deeply about getting the hell out of this row. Either way, the tactics work but campaigners now know that Upfield can be pushed around with just a few social-media posts. Let’s hope environmental campaigners don’t find out about its use of palm oil.

The consequence is that activists scent weakness, and the boundaries of acceptable speech are being redefined away from pure prejudice towards anything over which a group takes offence. If the issues do not affect the core business, most companies are inclined to avoid controversy.

But businesses are going to face a lot more of this and they are going to need to be a lot clearer in their own minds about when they are going to stand firm and when they are going to fold. As yet, the boycott threats have mostly been one way; that may not be true for ever.

The problem with this kind of attack, as the makers of Flora should understand, is it spreads

MagneticSingularity · 19/10/2019 21:47

Brittany2019 Wow, those Lipstick Alley posters take absolutely no prisoners! That’s as neat and comprehensive a takedown of an attempted derail - ‘what about the poor murdered black TW?’ - as I’ve ever seen. Bloody brilliant. Grin

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 21/11/2019 20:23

My Tescos delivery just arrived, and there was a little cool-bag with some samples in it - a smoothy, a veg shot thing, some ham and two tubs of Flora!

Looks like they're seeing an effect...

Figureof80 · 21/11/2019 20:35

For the last two weeks flora has been in the special offer section at half price in my tesco online shop.

BlackeyedSusan · 21/11/2019 20:45

The problem with this kind of attack, as the makers of Flora should understand, is it spreads.

Grin favourite quotation.

BarbaraStrozzi · 21/11/2019 20:55

LtEve suggest you ask MN to delete your post for breach of copyright before they do it themselves (and you get a black mark on the chart that leads to the naughty step). Linking through from the FT's own Twitter thread (as suggested upthread) works.

Good article. Who do you want to piss off, some randoms on Twitter or your core customer base?

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