Butch lesbian says "what are your pronouns is the new 'are you a man' "

[BeyondAvoidant]

I know there's a thread already on PC Goody Julie, but this one reply on twitter resonated with me and I felt it deserved it's own thread...

twitter.com/amydyess/status/1184570753116598272?s=21

She's right imo - the general 'you' don't assume Jeremy Corbyn needs to state his preferred pronouns, but for someone who looks a bit "other" it is asked much more frequently and can be read as a very subtle (or not so subtle) insult that they aren't just different, they're "wrong".

I have been asked. Luckily by someone that I'm close enough to that I went into a bit of a rant on the subject (though you'd think being that close they'd know if I preferred anything other than my expected pronouns). Even then, it made me wonder wtf was wrong with me that such a question was asked.

Apologies for my over use of scare quotes!

It's nothing to do with you, I expect. It's the other person snagging every opportunity to perform wokeness.

Yeah, they were attempting to play Wokémon Go with you.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with you.

Love Amy Dyess and she’s absolutely right, the pronouns question can and will be used to bully people, in the snidey, pernicious, slippery way that chips away at a person’s self esteem.

We have a very cheerful and friendly person working in a local shop who I am sure is biologically female and has taken testosterone for some length of time. What I can't tell is whether they want to be read as a trans man, nonbinary or a detransitioned woman. I have no desire to offend them through assumptions or unwelcome questions and sadly this means I would probably try to avoid deeper conversation with them through fear of whatever I might ask or assume being wrong.

But @namechange9357, why would pronouns crop up in that situation? Would you treat them differently if they were male or female?

I mean when you're talking to them.

Hadn't occurred to me before, but I think she is spot on! Whereas it used to be 'you look like a man, you run after girls like a man, so you must WANT to be man.' And for exactly the SAME reasons, the response is now 'what are your pronouns', or assuming you might be trans, but now safely protected as being all wonderful and woke and inclusive.

Still just being a butch lesbian is still WRONG. Still the same basic inability to deal with females who don't perform femininity..............

In some ways it is similar. Though I think for many people, they have been told they need to ask and are trying to be polite, and they probably feel like they are damned if they do and if they don't.

Apparently amongst younger people within lesbian community the right terminology is not “butch” but Stag. The opposite of Stag being Femme (for the more girly lesbian). Or if you’re in the middle ie some Stag and some Femme traits you can identify as Stemme (hope I’ve spelled this correctly). Hand on heart this was explained to me quite earnestly the other day. I’m trying to keep up.

Yes, I came across stemme/stem the other day. Every day is a school day.

My friend was misguided, though his heart was in the right place, but his views were exposed as regressive and homophobic imo. and sexist. But, at least, not 'transphobic'

People are out of their depth, and for many they seem to trust that what they are being told by the good progressive people is right. How is someone supposed to make sense of who is transgender, especially if they are supposed to be able to tell without asking, unless they use these kinds of clues? It's impossible.