In-fighting within the GC feminist movement

[GlitterToast]

I've been following/ participating in the GC feminist movement for about a year, which makes me a newbie compared to many of you.

One thing that stands out uncomfortably is the constant and prevalent in-fighting. This refers to both the men and women in the movement.

I know that none of us are doing this professionally, so we don't have to act professional. I also think that everyone is entitled to their personal opinions, and they can express themselves however they wish.

But for me, the in-fighting is really off-putting and upsetting. It makes me want to step away from the whole situation.

I won't name names/ organizations as I don't want this thread to become a "he said/ she said". I started this thread to see if anyone else had similar feelings and wanted to talk them through?

You may need to be a little more specific, OP.

Occasionally the TRA political lobby work on creating rumours of in fighting in divide/conquer attempts on here - which is tedious because there isn't a 'side', there isn't a GC ideology with insistence on purity and specific adherence to principles as there often is with the TRA lobby, so it tends to be projection more than anything else.

From what I've seen, GC women just want women's rights and needs recognised, safeguarding maintained, ethics followed, that kind of thing. That's about all they have in common.

Disagreements happen in all walks of life.

S’none of my business though.

Yes, sometimes women disagree, often robustly. So?

Think about why this bothers you. Must women always always be nice,polite and amenable? Should we just block people when they have a different point of view?

I've seen that. However, it isn't an organisation with leadership and rules. It's a massive bunch of individuals who happen to agree on one issue. They gather around specific tasks and events, then head off to different corners/political parties etc.

Another sad attempt at divide and conquer. Yawn.

Some people are more extreme in their views than others 🤷‍♀️

There is priority 1 (protecting women and girls) which everyone agrees on then there are many other discussion points which aren't so clear cut.

Oh what fucking rot.

Women have arguments with each other. And?

People in opposition to genderism don't always agree. And?

You know what does the most damage? Banging on and on about this shit. If it bothers you, OP, why not spend your time doing positive things and ignore arguments?

Almost as if you're only in it for the gossip.

I started this thread because I wanted to connect with others who may feel the same way. I was wondering what other people did. Do they engage with the people fighting? Walk away? Block the trouble-makers?

However, from the responses, it seems that many people disagree with my observations. I can only see this as a good thing really. I must be too sensitive or following the wrong types of people.

And I didn't start this "for the gossip". I have stated specifically that this was why I didn't pinpoint specific examples; I don't want to make this thread about any one person or organization.

I wanted to discuss the issue more generally.

There isn't really a 'GC movement' as such.

Radical feminism has always been critical of gender stereotypes as they harm women.

Other people are beginning to be critical of gender stereotypes for other reasons; eg impacting educational outcomes between the sexes.

One can observe that rigid gender stereotypes could lead people to think they're in the 'wrong' body as they prefer stereotypes attributed to the other sex. This (can) harm men and women.

Other groups are critical of gender/ trans for religious reasons.

Glitter if you're looking at this through a Twitter lens, you may get a rather nasty impression about ... well, everyone on there. It doesn't seem to be somewhere conducive to warm relations, to put it mildly. I left months ago and feel much better for it.

There have been monumental fall outs, Posie Parker fell out with Jane Hatchet for one, Venice Allen fell out with um... can't remember, and also I think the two of Man Friday Amy Desire and Hannah someone fell out with each other. Even Glinner, "Uber ally" fell out with a GC ally. But you know what I can't remember exactly the detaila because it doesn't matter.

It's frankly to be expected. Being GC is very stressful, it makes you a target, and it's virtually impossible to do everything right 100% of the time. But all of these people I mentioned keep going, they regroup, they forgive and forget, move on, the cause is what matters.

They have never left the cause behind, which is fighting against the madness and protecting women's rights.

All you can do is go about it your own way. There is no script, directive or manifesto for GC feminism.

Glitter

There has been discussion like this in the past here and there are differences of opinions over certain things.

But there's also difference of opinion in other 'movements' eg the trans umbrella and what 'pride' is all about.

There's also been a range of goady fuckers attempting to stir up division here with queries about 'disagreements' which gets merrily screen shotted for twatter.

Do they engage with the people fighting? Walk away? Block the trouble-makers?

Most people engage if they have something to say, walk away if not.

Blocking isn't a thing here as we are not twitter.

^Jean not Jane Hatchet that was an actual typo

Discussions even heated ones are not in fighting.

Humans have different opinions.

Actually, I have had that very thought tonight. There are women, whom I admire a great deal as people, as feminists, as fighters, currently involved in a battle of words (and deeds) that is making me very uncomfortable.

I struggle, because I don't know enough about the history of all involved, to know how I feel about it. I don't know where my 'loyalties' lie - I find myself annoyed at each of them in turn and hate it because it just confuses me. And then I find myself reluctant to post here because posters I admire are either oblivious to it, or denying it. So again, confused.

Plus - and this is probably the biggie - it's a gift to the TRAs (whereas, actually, that should be the least of my concerns, coz who gives a fuck what they think, when women are turning away?)

I used to work almost solely with men, I put up with so much shite - but you know what, it was a lot easier. Fuck, that's sad.

Maybe youre new to politics OP, but infighting is rife in every single movement. In different waves of feminism. In the left, in the right, in religions. Its not as if all trans people are in agreement either

Ive watched all sorts of shit go down in the feminist movement. Loads of fall outs.

OP with regards to Twitter the phrase 'never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty and the pig enjoys it' .
It is a sewer. Avoid it and the world will seem so much better. You can make a difference in many other ways as I think MN has shown.

I left Twitter a long time ago. The place really is a cess pit.

Haven’t done twitter for years. Utter pish.

We are going to disagree on things, that's inevitable and it's ok.
The discussions are how we learn from each other.
The vast majority of the time I have seen women, particularly on this board, discussing things in a civilised, polite, if sometimes robust way.
These are the discussions where I think I have benefitted most from having my ideas challenged.

There have been a few disagreements that have got personal and that's a real shame, but we are human. Sometimes there might be someone you are better off blocking or ignoring, other times engaging in discussion is the best way forward. I think you have to go with what works for you at the time.

It's just politics and personalities. You'd see the same in a political party branch meeting, in Extinction Rebellion, probably even in the local darts team. (Have for sure seen worse in schools!)

If politics or personalities in general put you off, don't worry about it. Do your own thing on your ownsome. Plenty of people do.

But don't think this is some sort of GC specific deficiency. In any case, the feminist GC message doesn't rest of any one person - it's an argument that can be assessed on it's merits. You agree or you don't. What goes on or doesn't go on on Twitter has nothing to do with it.

I could loathe every GC feminist in existence (not true) and still find their arguments sound.

people disagree- people with the same aims disagree. the suffragettes disagreed, the civil rights movement splintered, parties break up again and again and again.

its normal...

I haven't seen any infighting but I wouldn't particularly describe us as a "movement". Naturally the ability to recognise that the existence of a physical sex being present in all (bar a very few genetic mutations) mammals is going to be found across all points of the political spectrum. Therefore obviously there are going to be GC people who strongly disagree with each other on a huge number of topics. No one should expect otherwise. This includes the obvious fact that not everyone who recognises biological fact is a feminist - some are so sexist that the average GC feminist would normally have nothing at all in common with them and might have trouble keeping civil. I don't think we should be pretending to agree on everything. We are not a united front on anything beyond the simple fact that simple facts exist.