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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Private Eye

56 replies

WineIsMyCarb · 08/10/2019 20:03

Letter attached. I would like to reply. Please help me frame my argument.

Initially my thoughts are:
"Anyone can be a sexual predator"

  • need link to evidence that 90+% of offenders are men, and that trans people offend at the same rate

"Ridiculous fears". Undermining he valid concern that self-ID laws will be taken advantage of by predatory men.

"I'm no scientist but sexual dimorphism and nature is not so supposedly cut and dry"
It is a biological fact that mammals cannot change sex.

Sugggestions and proposed phrasing very welcome please.

On train after 2 long days of meetings so can only come back to this seriously at work on Thursday. Sorry if don't reply to this until then.

Thanks.

Private Eye
OP posts:
MissLawls · 09/10/2019 13:14

The Eye doesn't say it pays for letters so presume it doesn't. It does pay for Pseuds corner. A tenner. The price hasn't changed in years. I like to think it's one of their little jokes.

However they pay their interns and they pay freelance contributors quite well too. I once got £180 for a few paragraphs and I didn't even write it all myself!

SEND THAT LETTER!!!!

SonEtLumiere · 09/10/2019 13:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 09/10/2019 13:18

I vote Datun too. Someone send it. The more the merrier!

OrchidInTheSun · 09/10/2019 13:21

Brava 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Original poster
WineIsMyCarb · 09/10/2019 13:29

Thank you all. I went with this:

Sir

I acknowledge C Clarke's letter (PE1506, 4-17th Oct) ref self-ID.

Indeed "Anyone can be a sexual predator" (what an aspiration!) however in reality 96% of offenders are people with penises and the immutable physical strength afforded by male puberty, regardless of their clothing or pronoun preferences. Let's, for convenience and brevity, call them "men".

Silly gender-critical feminists like myself with our "ridiculous fears" have a clear message for those wishing to undermine women's hard-fought for rights to safety and protection from the law; fuck off.

Subscription imminent
[initial surname]

OP posts:
Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 09/10/2019 13:37

Fabulous!

RoyalCorgi · 09/10/2019 13:38

That's good, OP. Very good.

Original poster
WineIsMyCarb · 09/10/2019 14:04

Thanks. It felt good to send.

OP posts:
Lazyteens · 09/10/2019 15:18

Very good! I eagerly await the edition of PE!

Lazyteens · 09/10/2019 15:19

*next edition

Brefugee · 09/10/2019 15:35

Women everywhere acknowledge C.Clarke's letter of date referring to self-ID.

We note that C.Clarke’s attitude of “rapists gonna rape” (which is, of course, shared by ex-Stonewall Chief Executive Ruth Hunt) will be governed by the nature of our reply and would therefore be grateful if they would inform us what his attitude to us would be, were they to learn that the nature of our reply is as follows: fuck off.

you'll need to replace that last bit with something like : would be grateful if they would inform us what his attitude to us would be were we to refer them to Presdram vs. Arkle.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 09/10/2019 15:42

C CLARKE - I'm sure I've seen that name on the letters page before. Plant?

MissLawls · 09/10/2019 17:06

Great letter. Hope they use it. Eye deputy editor Francis Wheen - 100 per cent mensch - is with us. A great ally to have. No idea how Hislop feels but he tends to be anti bullshit and is an Orwell fan.

MissLawls · 09/10/2019 17:09

@SonEtLumiere wrote: "Whilst self-id obviously will not impact him personally..."

I think this is the aspect that pisses me off the most. Men who aren't affected by it telling women to STFU and sit down. Same as men have always told women to STFU and sit down.

Since when do men give two shiny shits about women's rights?

MrsFogi · 09/10/2019 17:18

Please everyone if you have come up with a witty response do send it in (don't let them go to waste) - PE has not drunk the Kool Aid....who knows, they may do a whole page dedicated to responses!

MissLawls · 09/10/2019 17:28

PE has indeed not drunk the Kool Aid and I don't think it ever will. Editor Hislop has pretty good bullshit detectors.

allmywhat · 09/10/2019 17:48

I think C.Clarke is affected by self-ID, there's a point where he refers to "us" in the context of trans waiting lists. Just a minor point.

How's this?

Sir,
Your correspondent C.Clarke notes we’re still not out of the woods yet when it comes to a consensus on gender self-identification.

Have we yet come to a consensus on where bears shit? Or can human-identified bears do it in the Ladies?

FWRLurker · 09/10/2019 17:59

Re: the biology one. You have a good start, but go from there.

It is a fact that it is not possible for a mammal to change sex, because sex is whether you’re able to make eggs and gestate young, or male and ejaculate sperm. Regarding sexual dimorphism while it is true that many traits are sexually dimorphic that is beside the point at issue. It would be insulting to argue that a short man is somehow “more female” than a tall man, or that a woman who has experienced a mastectomy is somehow “less female” than one who retains both breasts. Sexual dimorphism is not the same as sex.

However the existence of average differences between the sexes has real and measurable effects on women. For example, men are much stronger than women and when assault occurs between the sexes in the vast majority of the time the woman gets the worst of it. Women have to be cautious because a male abuser is likely to be able to easily murder her. The same is simply not true in reverse - It is not a symmetric situation as the LW argues. A male, however they identify, poses a greater physical threat to women that any other female would. Me Too also shows pretty convincingly that males (men) are far more likely to be sexually aggressive harassers, to commit sexual assault than are women. This is something that we desperately need to address as a society. Ignoring the sex of perpetrators is unhelpful to say the least.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 09/10/2019 18:00

Get it sent! Grin

Original poster
WineIsMyCarb · 09/10/2019 20:07

Hurrah.

Private Eye
OP posts:
MrsFogi · 09/10/2019 20:10

For the sake of balance I think that we need to submit a letter in support of C Clarke - perhaps lamenting the lack of beauty salons willing to wax lady balls?

PinaGrigio · 09/10/2019 20:16

Excellent letter, OP & thanks so much for sending it. I shall be checking my copy next week to see if they've printed it. They have certainly been increasing the attention and space they give to 'identity politics' stories over the past few months, which has been great in shining more light on what's been going on.

Fraggling · 09/10/2019 20:19

All of this. The oh well the law is there. It'll happen anyway.

Reveals that these people have

Zero idea of how creepy men operate
Zero idea about women and girls lives

I mean they could do id they tried, loads of info stats stories etc. Women are not so quiet about this stuff. We still don't say at the time, but we do now say. This happened at 12, this at 14, this at 16 etc etc.

Fact is they don't care.

Men never have, apart from 'their'women and girls.

All this commentary just shows up how society, men have not changed at all really, since middle ages or something.

StillWeRise · 09/10/2019 23:12

I think all these letters should be sent
also, for balance, some in support of C Clarke, I'm sure we could think of some really awful situations that he might be facing

Manderleyagain · 10/10/2019 01:33

Clarke's letter was in response to a letter pointing at the jb's genitals are male. That was in response to a PE piece updating about the jb situation (which they have reported on before) where they said something like 'exposing her genitals'.

Just thought I'd fill that in as the question was asked upthread.