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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Peak Trans in the Sunday Mail: Liz Truss and detransitioner Charlie Evans

75 replies

Lamahaha · 06/10/2019 05:58

Two great articles today in the Sunday Mail:

'Pick your own sex' plans are shelved: Equalities minister Liz Truss abandons drive to relax laws around changing gender

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7542003/Equalities-minister-Liz-Truss-abandons-drive-relax-laws-changing-gender.html?fbclid=IwAR3ZOW9Y0raeCTvscZzUkVXmEyDx2t_GkKbDDzsgfzLQFcNWR1PhmnrZmWk

and:
Hundreds of transgender youths who had gender reassignment surgery wish they hadn't and want to transition back, says trans rights champion

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7541679/Hundreds-youths-gender-surgery-wish-hadnt-says-head-advocacy-network.html

In older news, the Times, has an article on the Old Vic loos (possibly already posted!), with a fantastic comments thread, (actually 3 days old, but going viral now on Facebook; I've seen it three times on my feed by various people:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dispute-grows-over-old-vics-gender-neutral-toilets-hm0hznkrp

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TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/10/2019 10:49

If the Tavi and Portman rarely see detransitioners maybe it's because they've made it plain that they would not be in any way sympathetic or willing to help.

Detransitioners exist. If they're not going back to the clinics that facilitated their transitions or even reporting back on their dissatisfaction there is a reason for that, and it's unlikely to reflect well on the clinics.

LangCleg · 06/10/2019 10:59

No one is thinking of the girls best interests

And that's what it all boils down to.

nauticant · 06/10/2019 11:04

I suspect that it's rarely seen is a narrow and particular cohort that does not reflect those girls caught up in the 4000% increase in identifying as trans.

Lamahaha · 06/10/2019 12:55

I give it five more years at the most. This bubble is going to burst and it will be devastating for many kids and their parents. Especially those parents who didn't encourage tarnsition.
Five years at the very most. More likely, one. This is just the beginning.

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terfsandwich · 06/10/2019 16:39

Have you got a share token for the Old Vic article Lamaha? I'd love to read the comments!

SunsetBeetch · 06/10/2019 18:12

Statement from Mermaids:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1180823692458242048.html

THREAD. Recently, we've tried very hard to step away from the most degrading examples of anti-trans rhetoric in the national press and focus on the positive. Today, in the middle of what might feel like nothing short of an orchestrated onslaught, we feel we have no choice.1/
We cannot stand silent amidst a slew of misleading stories, seemingly designed to undermine, frighten, alienate and demonise a vulnerable minority, including children. We have been approached for comment by all of the journalists responsible...2/
...and it has been depressing, trying to offer fact-based, reasonable information. In truth, while a small number are simply too busy, too inexperienced, too lazy or too incompetent to question the motives of small but noisy groups seeking to spread fear and division...3/
...the truth is that some are only too happy to vilify transgender and NB kids and adults. So, after a short period of very positive coverage of transgender issues, we face the inevitable attempt to force us all back to the all-too-familiar tropes...4/
Let's start with a story on @SkyNews about a new group, seeking to support mainly women and girls seeking to 'detransition'. We were approached for comment during the week with the assumption that we would be opposed to anyone supporting people who do so...5/
...We explained - again - that we support anyone following their own path and simply try to help people to feel empowered and safe. We sent a link to this blog post on our website. We also suggested the journalist consider the wealth of research...6/

...showing that 'detransition' rates are very low: less than 1% in a number of intl studies, incl. the report below, which found of 3,398 trans patients who'd accessed NHS support, 16 expressed regret, and only 3 made a long-term detransition. 7/
epath.eu/wp-content/upl…

Still, regret following any surgery is commonplace but - according to a number of international studies - regret for post-op. gender-transition patients is far lower than for other forms of 'plastic surgery'...8/

This doesn't mean we 'advocate' any particular route for young transgender or NB service users. Nor do we belittle or abandon those few who regret. Our ethos is only ever to support people in their own choices. We also suggested the Sky journo question the claim that...9/
...'hundreds' of people were approaching this new group for help. Journalistic diligence seemed beyond the reporter in question, in spight of the support they received from a full-time producer, who had been researching trans issues by 'reading the newspapers'. Deep breaths...10/
Any group supporting young people in their journey is welcome, so long as it isn't a trojan horse for anti-transgender rhetoric. Onto the next story...11/
There is no evidence to back the claim (below) up or give due weight to such a statement. We know this, because we have asked in vain to see it. Newspapers are quick to base articles on hearsay and unsubstantiated anecdotal claims made by a tiny minority. Why? 12/

Because fear and prejudice sells papers & gets clicks, and because a number of journalists personally believe that trans people (particularly trans women/girls) are a threat or are deserving of ridicule. The article claims cisgender girls are afraid to use the toilets. 13/
Our experience shows that it is transgender and non-binary students who are afraid to use the toilets at school. It is our young service users who speak very emotionally about years spent trying to hold on before using facilities, risking their health...14/
It is they who face daily verbal and physical assaults. We find no proof of transgender students causing cis' female classmate distress in school toilets while they are menstruating. We know of no figures suggesting trans or NB kids are a threat in school facilities at all. 15/
We do know that our service users are being regularly demonised in the national press, by a small number of people who seem intent on ruthlessly attacking defenceless children and encouraging their cis classmates to mock, isolate and ridicule them. We say: 16/
Shame on you. The newspapers, the journalists and the "equality campaigners", who seem determined to injure and cow every transgender person in the country, regardless of their age or vulnerability. @IpsoNews: We ask for nothing more from our press than... 17/
...equality of coverage on this vital and complex issue.Not to be approached at the 11th hour for a 1-line comment at the end of a 1,000-word article founded on rumour, prejudice and division.Not to answer to factual inaccuracies.Not to be equated to groups fuelled by hate. 18/
We beg journos to spend 5 minutes looking into their sources, asking objectively what their motives & who their backers might be. We ask them to read scientific papers and look at respected international studies. We ask them to meet our service users to help them understand. 19/
🏳️‍⚧️⬆️🏳️‍⚧️Things are getting better. More and more, people are standing behind LGBTQ+ causes and newspapers are beginning to offer space to real people with real stories. That is precisely why this latest wave of negative coverage has come our way. In a way - it's a good sign. 20/
Still, we cannot ignore the fact that some politicians are also doubtful of the need to support transgender people. According to reports today, @trussliz, will deny trans adults the long-awaited freedom to self ID. We know many of those at @GEOgovuk will be dismayed. 21/

The Women & Equalities Minister once described our importation of pears as "a disgrace".
@trussliz, will you abandon our most vulnerable minority for political gain?
That. Truly. Is. A. Dis-grace. 22/

On this dismal day, let's end on a positive. We stand strong with our fellow charities and organisations: @stonewalluk, @Genderintell, @allsortsyouth, @aktcharity, @AllAboutTrans, @PinkNews, @gaytimesmag and so many more.

We promise those who feel afraid this weekend... 23/
We will not abandon you.
We will not let you be silenced.
We will not let you be demonised.
We will keep fighting for your rights and for the truth.

One day, we will look back on these stories spreading fear and division and we will wonder how we kept going... 24/
...and the answer will be:

Because we always do. And because we have hope.

As we approach our 25th anniversary, we look at what we've achieved and only wish these 25 tweets weren't still necessary. But they are more necessary than ever.

So let's keep going. 🏳️‍⚧️

End. 25/25.

nauticant · 06/10/2019 18:24

It would be good to see Mermaids push hard against the press and the government with their response. Their (very successful) approach to date has been that trans issues are only to be discussed according to their script and any deviation from the script, for example to ask questions or to propose research, is transphobic.

Let them get a conversation going. In front of the public.

HandsOffMyRights · 06/10/2019 18:37

No, shame on YOU, Mermaids and your accomplices and funders.

For we will keep on going to safeguard and protect our children from abuse.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/10/2019 18:45

Statement from Mermaids

There seem to be a lot of very rattled TRAs out there at the moment, Mermaids, Oflang (Joss Prior), Jane Fae...

KatvonHostileExtremist · 06/10/2019 18:54

That Sky News article has been sent to me by two separate friends who aren't out GC. Pulllllllllllllllll

But kicking the GRA into the long grass is too little too late. I agree with this comment on Penis News. Self ID is here through misuse of the 2010 act.

Peak Trans  in the Sunday Mail: Liz Truss and detransitioner Charlie Evans
JellySlice · 06/10/2019 19:02

There is no evidence to back the claim (below) up or give due weight to such a statement. We know this, because we have asked in vain to see it. Newspapers are quick to base articles on hearsay and unsubstantiated anecdotal claims made by a tiny minority.

We ask for nothing more from our press than... 17/
...equality of coverage on this vital and complex issue.Not to be approached at the 11th hour for a 1-line comment at the end of a 1,000-word article founded on rumour, prejudice and division.Not to answer to factual inaccuracies.Not to be equated to groups fuelled by hate. 18/
We beg journos to spend 5 minutes looking into their sources, asking objectively what their motives & who their backers might be. We ask them to read scientific papers and look at respected international studies.

DARVO.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/10/2019 19:05

If I were Jane Fae and I were hoping to be used as a source by the media I don't know that I'd be recommending that they check the backgrounds of their sources. Just think what kind of things they might turn up if they were to search using Fae's former name.

nauticant · 06/10/2019 19:18

It's complacency. The rules are that if someone is trans the nature of who they are and what they're promoting must never be examined.

The assumption is that the rules will never change.

SirVixofVixHall · 06/10/2019 19:19

This is on my mind today anyway, as a friend’s daughter has just had a double mastectomy. One of DH’s oldest friends is her father. We are really upset about it and don’t know what on earth to say to him.
She is still only 17 as far as I know, and was put on cross sex hormones about a year ago. They are not in the UK.
Horrendous.

Waterl00 · 06/10/2019 19:37

I am so sorry to hear that SirVixofVixHal and finding words for that situation is impossible.

Having just looked at the Mermaids tweets I spotted this interesting feedback on the thread from a Conservative Peer

twitter.com/LordLucasCD/status/1180907677024751616

Lamahaha · 06/10/2019 20:15

uh-oh

inews.co.uk/news/politics/liz-truss-denies-abandoning-transgender-reforms-644734

Equalities minister Liz Truss is committed to completing a review into the way transgender people are treated in law, a source has said.

The Mail on Sunday had reported that Ms Truss is set to abandon plans to overhaul gender recognition laws, which would allow transgender people to more easily gain legal recognition in their chosen gender.

OP posts:
Lamahaha · 06/10/2019 20:17

POsted too soon; I forgot the headline, which is a bit misleading:

Liz Truss denies reports that she is abandoning transgender law reforms

The actual article does not quote a denial. It reads more placatory than anything.

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LoveGrowsWhere · 06/10/2019 20:42

Waterl00 Don't be too optimistic twitter.com/suepascoe001/status/1180851190529249286

LoveGrowsWhere · 06/10/2019 20:43

Sorry to be clear that Sue Pascoe tweet has been RT by LordLucas

Waterl00 · 06/10/2019 20:54

What will Pascoe be doing then, whipping us into submission?

I am sure they are all trying to present as reasonable behind the scenes but they can't stop the press reporting crime, and the soft soap stuff simply draws attention to the obvious truths.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/10/2019 21:08

Sorry, Sue, people aren't going to be shutting up about this.

SarahConnorFem · 06/10/2019 21:09

Goodness, the comments on the Daily Mail Liz Truss Story must have been moderated to hell!! The ones they've left up are so bland. I wish they'd left the whole thread intact.

SarahConnorFem · 06/10/2019 21:14

Oh and re the Detransition story, I shared the Sky version on my Facebook profile with a fairly opinionated rant to go with it. Mostly tumbleweed in terms of replies, although a couple of females/mothers agreeing it's a tragedy etc. Except one Male gay friend pretty much telling me as a "cishet" it's none of my business etc, despite me coming from a "mother's" POV. First time someone I know irl has called me "cishet". Told him I reject that descriptor, obvs. But he's missing MY point! Also asked him, if it's not my business to be concerned, is it even his to defend?? He's not trans after all. 🤷‍♀️

littlbrowndog · 06/10/2019 21:22

Labour response

Labour's shadow equalities minister Dawn Butler said: "Boris Johnson’s Government have failed to publish the consultation results and are deliberately creating a hostile environment for transgender people.

“We must put a stop to this irresponsible behaviour. Almost half of trans people in Britain have attempted suicide at least once and 84 per cent have thought about it.

“A Labour government will help save lives not ruin them. We will champion rights for LGBT+ communities across the UK and reform the Gender Recognition Act."