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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Baby dies in prison after pregnant mother gives birth alone

106 replies

RedToothBrush · 04/10/2019 21:56

amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/oct/04/baby-dies-in-uk-prison-after-inmate-gives-birth-alone-in-cell?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true
Baby dies in UK prison after inmate ‘gives birth alone in cell’
Police investigate unexplained death at Bronzefield women’s prison in Surrey

The case raises serious questions about how the woman came to be unsupervised and without medical support during her labour and birth, and about the conditions at the privately run prison.

And

Bronzefield is Europe’s largest female prison, holding up to 557 inmates, and is operated by Sodexo Justice Services. Concerns have been raised previously about the care of prisoners.

In the case of Natasha Chin, who died at HMP Bronzefield in 2016, an inquest jury found that neglect and systemic failings at the prison had contributed to her death. Four women have died at Bronzefield since July 2016.

There is a mother and baby unit at the prison and women whose babies are born in prison, or who already have a baby when they enter prison, can keep the infants with them until they are 18 months old.

And

Jane Ryan, a solicitor at Bhatt Murphy Solicitors who specialises in cases of women in prison, said: “There are serious concerns raised about risk issues arising from lack of access to midwives when labour commences, access to pregnancy records and full maternity care. It is an indictment of our prison system that a woman was giving birth in a prison cell. There must be a full independent investigation, and possibly an inquest, into these horrific circumstances.”

Dr Kate Paradine, the chief executive of the charity Women in Prison, said: “All mothers should have the right to give birth in dignity. But time and time again, we hear of situations where this isn’t happening, with mothers regularly being denied access to the vital health and maternity care necessary to give birth safely. This has devastating consequences not only for the baby and mother, but also for the rest of the family they are separated from.”

Worst bit?

A spokesman for the Prisons & Probation Ombudsman, an independent body which investigates deaths in prisons and detention centres, confirmed that they are not investigating the baby’s death and said it was not part of their remit.

Like WTF?!

OP posts:
Haworthia · 05/10/2019 14:44

I recently saw a video on Twitter of a woman giving birth alone in a prison cell in the US (I hate autoplay, I wouldn’t have chosen to watch it, but once it started I needed to see that the mother and child were OK). I was sickened that no one responded to her cries for help.

There’s no way that would happen in the UK, I thought. What an idiot I am.

Fraggling · 05/10/2019 14:46

'A spokesman for the Prisons & Probation Ombudsman, an independent body which investigates deaths in prisons and detention centres, confirmed that they are not investigating the baby’s death and said it was not part of their remit.'

This explains a lot.
If the baby's life/ death has nothing to do with them it explains why they don't bother giving any assistance when women are giving birth. Not their remit. Not interested. Don't care about outcome.

Fraggling · 05/10/2019 14:48

'Vicky Robinson, the director at HMP Bronzefield, confirmed that a baby died at the prison last Friday and said it was supporting the mother.'

Why are they supporting the mother?
Dead baby outside their remit doesn't exist to them.
Nothing happened.

OldCrone · 05/10/2019 14:57

If the baby's life/ death has nothing to do with them it explains why they don't bother giving any assistance when women are giving birth. Not their remit. Not interested. Don't care about outcome.

The mother could also have died, and that would have been in their remit.

Fraggling · 05/10/2019 15:10

And?

Fraggling · 05/10/2019 15:12

Their policies say the health life death of baby is nothing to do with them.

So, not surprising they are failing women in labour.

Women have also died avoidably there so that remit seems to be on paper only.

WhereAreWeNow · 05/10/2019 15:12

This is so heartbreaking.

I don't read the "not within their remit" bit in the same way though. I think she means prisons don't have the expertise to investigate a stillbirth. They couldn't/shouldn't even if they wanted to. I think NHS currently have remit for investigation of stillbirths. It may be that the death of the baby was nothing to do with anything the hospital did or didn't do. What the prison needs to investigate is how the hell this poor woman ended up in labour on her own.

I can't imagine there are many cases where there would be justification for locking up a pregnant woman. Most women are in for things like benefit fraud. They should be given community sentences IMO.

My heart goes out to this woman and her family.

Fraggling · 05/10/2019 15:15

Of course the prison should see looking into this as in their remit.
Not to do an autopsy or anything but see what went wrong.
If they ignore the fact that the baby died and anything to do with that, then their investigation is missing the entire point. I find it hard to understand how they can investigate a woman laboring and birthing alone and not have any consideration of the severity of the outcome ie dead baby as that is appatently not their problem

Fraggling · 05/10/2019 15:17

The 65k a year this prison spends per woman could be much better use completely changing their lives on the outside (im talking about the less serious non violent etc)

Haworthia · 05/10/2019 15:36

Was it a stillbirth though? There seems to be scant details right now.

Fraggling · 05/10/2019 15:37

Well the prison aren't interested in the circs that much we do know.

DuMondeB · 05/10/2019 15:39

Fuck me, this is heartbreaking.

If the prison want no responsibility for the death of babies, they shouldn’t accept pregnant prisoners. Can’t have it both ways.

Spindelina · 05/10/2019 15:40

Where, nothing that's been reported in the Grauniad says that this was necessarily a still birth. I kind of hope that it was, because that seems the least horrific outcome for all concerned. Well, apart from the paper getting its facts wrong, which would be even better - but it's pretty shocking that this isn't shocking, IYSWIM.

Themyscira · 05/10/2019 15:40

Holy shit. I am furious.

Themyscira · 05/10/2019 15:46

Subcontracted, privately run neo-liberal institutions that see human beings as a source of income are evil. Just evil.

SingingLily · 05/10/2019 15:57

It is heartbreaking, but a court made the decision to send this woman to prison.

Prisons have no choice statutorily but to accept those sentenced to custody by the courts. The prison would be in breach of the law if it refused to accept a lawfully sentenced prisoner.

The prison and the PPO are two separate entities.

The PPO's legal authority to investigate is limited, statutorily, to those lawfully in the custody of prisons and those lawfully under the supervision of the probation service. This poor baby was neither a prisoner nor on probation. The child's mother was. The PPO would be acting outside its lawful authority if it investigated the death of the child.

The Coroner's remit and legal powers are far wider and a Coroner's investigation is exhaustively thorough - for good reason.

None of that is, as I say, a consolation but that is how the law stands.

Fraggling · 05/10/2019 16:11

Bollocks is it illegal for them to take into account the outcome of the care of the woman.

How can they even discuss the pregnancy if the feotus is outside their remit, even while inside her.

I tend to agree with the PP that the rules were made up for men and have not taken into account the fact that pregnant birthing women, babies and toddlers have not been considered.

Prisons have to accept those sent but they are supposed to look after them ffs.

SingingLily · 05/10/2019 16:19

Prisons have to accept those sent but they are supposed to look after them ffs.

Yes, Fraggling, I agree.

I also agree that the prison system is designed for men. Women prisoners are an afterthought.

I also feel quite strongly that if the State deprives someone of their liberty - and there are very good reasons why loss of liberty might be the only appropriate sanction in certain cases - then the State should be responsible for their custody and care. There is an awful lot of human misery in prisons (offenders can also be, and often are, victims) and private profit made on human misery is abhorrent in my view.

OldCrone · 05/10/2019 16:33

I can't imagine there are many cases where there would be justification for locking up a pregnant woman. Most women are in for things like benefit fraud.

If you read through the statistics on the page I linked to earlier, you can see how vulnerable many of these women are and how inappropriate a prison sentence is.

www.womeninprison.org.uk/research/key-facts.php

misspiggy19 · 05/10/2019 16:40

Heavily pregnant women shouldn't even be in prison, unless it's a serious violent crime.

^I don’t agree with this. Lots of woman get pregnant in the hope of going to jail.

misspiggy19 · 05/10/2019 16:41

Not going to jail

57Varieties · 05/10/2019 16:46

That poor mum must be absolutely traumatised :(

Sadly a lot of people just won’t care. I’ve seen it on comments pages about the Katie Allan case I referenced above. Serves her right, if she hadn’t committed a crime she wouldn’t have been there, no sympathy, etc. People seem to revel in being callous these days

PhoenixBuchanan · 05/10/2019 17:00

This sounds like a horrific situation but I also think there is a real scarcity of facts at the moment, so it's difficult to form an opinion.

powershowerforanhour · 05/10/2019 18:17

I didn't even know private prisons existed. Jeez is there nothing you can't make a bob out of?

Spindelina · 05/10/2019 19:06

power if you want to find out more about the current state of the UK penal system, the Howard League is IMO a good place to start.