mutaa marriages

[Gin96]

There is no chance for these young girls/women 😞
www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/iuKTEGjKgS/teenage_iraq_brides
Why is no one standing up for these women, if it was a religion or race people would be up in arms but when it’s gender inequality nobody seems to care.

Surely those clerics offering to find literally girls for mutaa aka prostitution should be charged with human trafficking? I imagine there must be an equivalent prosecutable offence under Iraqi law.

I think the law is more on the Clerics side (men in general) than the women

I wonder if they exist in the UK?

Another article in the Guardian

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/06/pleasure-marriages-iraq-baghdad-bbc-investigation-child-prostitution

@meditrina I agree, probably more cultural than religion, just the religion is used to get what the man wants. I see what the men get out of it but I don’t see what the women get, absolutely nothing, in fact it makes their lives worse but the men don’t care, they are thrown away like a piece of rubbish.

Just to clarify, In case the article didn’t make it obvious..

This is a practice absolutely not prescribed by Islam. Abhorred by the majority of the followers. It was made permissible by clerks of a specific small sect for their own reasons ans not everyone agrees with it from that sect and that sect is completely not rubbing shoulders with the majority of the Muslim world..

I’m fact the biggest victims of this practice is Muslim girls in places like Syria, who were raped under the religious banner of those twelfth imam Shia militants. There is much hostility with that sect and this topic is one of the main reasons.

Sunni Muslims consider this prostitution and exploitation and have absolutely no respect for it or for the clerks of Iran who have Legistlated it.

The article states this:

Mutaa marriages are not permitted under Sunni Islam. But some Sunni clerics sanction alternative variants of marriage, such as “misyar”, which some experts say performs a similar function to mutaa marriage and has also been criticised as exploitative of women.

I don’t think such comparison should be derived. Some weird and deviant small imams bribed with money who are called out by all the big scholars of the Sunni sect has made up this practice which says that a man can marry a woman for a short period of time. The origin of Misyar was that some scholars said that if a woman wants to let go of her rights as a wife (to be provided shelter, have sexual intercourse, be provided for adequately...)in order to remain married or get married then it is fine for both parties to agree and this is called misyar (facilitated marriage).

This concept was stretched by deviant imams who are negligible and they take bribes and they facilitated for some men to marry women on “temporary contracts”. Often times without the woman even knowing that it’s temporary. Which is VERY exploitative..

It has happened amongst rich and stupid Arabs who exploit girls from poorer countries. Most of whome are not religious and are doing so knowing that they’re exploiting and don’t lead a religious life..

This is NOT a practice that is permitted under Sunni Islam. It is abhorred and tabooed and those rich Arabs form Saudi are avoided for this very reason. This is just some stupid men twisting and turning religion to exploit women and found a man with a beard who would take money to facilitate that.. however it is all done in secret and not legal.

None of those two practices are at all taken lightly by the majority of Muslims. We are aware of it... Men and women haaaate it.. father’s and brothers as well as women themselves realise it’s sexual exploitation and it has driven a wedge between different cultures/sects.. Sunnis aren’t permitted by their scholars to marry any twelve imam Shia man because of this filthy practice as well as other practices.. the mesyar marriage is banned by the known scholars and spoken off widely.

it’s only the vulnerable and poor that unfortunately fall prey for this.. because of their need for an excuse to get a “dowry”.

Very sad and I personally know this is a topic many Muslim have been raging about for years and years with regards to Iraq and now Syria.. because warzones are a very attractive place for these practices..

It is a major major problem.. where religion has been used as a tool by men wanting to exploit.. but religion is innocent of this..

And quoting it as a religious practice is enabling them.

So shocking to read that if the girl being sold is too young, men are encouraged to anally rape them, leaving them with horrific injuries which they will never be able to speak about.

Gin, I found this article about Mutaa marriage in the UK:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22354201

Fair makes you nostaligic for Winchester Geese.

Islam has no priesthood and no heirarchy. Any pervy fucker can call himself an Imam and spout shit. Hell Awaits is the consensus on them.

Off topic as this thread isn't about Catholics, Catholicism, or the Catholic Church, or anything related to it, it's about "mutaa marriage" practice in Islam, or some Islamic cultures, www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/iuKTEGjKgS/teenage_iraq_brides which is against everything Catholicism teaches, but in response to this post,

post by Gin96: "I went to a Catholic school and the things they taught young girls was awful, periods are a curse, birth control was against god, abortions was the most evil thing women can do and showed us videos of abortions in progress. The document from the BBC which I read was just as bad if not worse as it’s accepted by the whole community, where the Catholic Church was more enclosed like a cult."

and other posts.

I usually wouldn't reply or talk about my religion, but I'm a Catholic woman, aged 30. My schooling - primary, secondary and 6th form college has been in Catholic schools and colleges in England. Have attended church on and off. I study about my religion frequently. I don't think anything I or my classmates, both girls and boys, were taught was "awful", definitely NEVER heard that about periods, that's not from Catholicism. Was never shown abortion videos. My dad before he met my mum was in the seminary in his native country (in Mediterranean), training to become a Catholic priest. Several of his (our) friends from his native country are Catholic priests.

Never heard of what you say you were taught about periods, from anyone in my entire life. That has no basis in Catholicism, have no idea why they would say that to you or where that would come from, very bizarre, just, no, this is the first time I've heard of that, nope, that's not a Catholic belief at all.

Yes, artificial birth control is seen as going against God, and against nature, (except now I think allowed if motivated by health reasons and not motivated specifically to block pregnancy) the teaching on contraception is ignored by the vast majority of Catholics tbh, and there are clergy in church hierarchy working to change it officially. To prevent unwanted pregnancy the official position is abstinence, sex within a stable marriage, and "natural family planning" based on the woman's cycle etc., to avoid unwanted pregnancy.

We were never shown videos of abortion or taught "it's the most evil thing women can do". But yes, though views on abortion within the Catholic church have been different at different times, deliberate abortion is considered as not acceptable from conception, except when there is fatal threat to the woman's life. Yes, in Catholicism as well as Christianity in general, and in Islam I believe, deliberate abortion is considered wrong, and very very bad, because of the belief that all life is sacred from conception until natural death, that at conception a new unique human life begins, and the deliberate taking of innocent human life, whether born or unborn, is morally wrong for us to do. When the mother's life is in danger it's different, the intention is to save the mother, it's not to abort the fetus, so in these cases, the death of the embryo or fetus is a side effect. The death of the fetus is an undesirable but unavoidable consequence, and is not considered abortion.

I don't even think these things were taught in school in the way you describe i.e. telling us that we must not do them, I have no recollection of anything like that. In R.E. we learnt about our own and others' religions, and beliefs from an educational standpoint. Not finger-wagging authoritarian teaching, i.e. I never experienced being taught "you're a Catholic, don't do this! Bad! Evil!" as some people online seem to claim/think. And we were encouraged to analyse and critique our religion. We had sex ed in high school which taught us about sex and all the different contraception available (also taught in science class) and how we could get those contraceptions, the sexual health organisations we could go to for help, we were told about the Brook clinics for example www.brook.org.uk , (I accompanied my bestfriend there once in 6th form for the morning after pill and condoms). It wasn't something taught as "bad" or "banned" to us. We also had the school nurse to talk to. I can't remember what if anything was taught about abortion in school.

I definitely know we were not shown videos of abortion, and women were not and are not demonised as "evil", (nobody is), any time abortion is talked about there is much sadness, and sympathy for the woman, and the situation she may be in, and it's encouraged to help the woman practically so she has the choice to keep the baby if the abortion is due to economic hardship for example, there are various Catholic and non-Catholic charities we're encouraged to support to help pregnant women and struggling mothers, to try to make sure no woman is forced into abortion due to financial or other reason. And of course there is adoption. Pope John Paul II wrote: "I would now like to say a special word to women who have had an abortion. The Church is aware of the many factors which may have influenced your decision, and she does not doubt that in many cases it was a painful and even shattering decision. The wound in your heart may not yet have healed. Certainly what happened was and remains terribly wrong. But do not give in to discouragement and do not lose hope. Try rather to understand what happened and face it honestly. If you have not already done so, give yourselves over with humility and trust to repentance. The Father of mercies is ready to give you his forgiveness and his peace in the Sacrament of Reconciliation." As Christians, we all sin in various ways, and through Jesus can be forgiven, as Catholic we have sacraments of confession, absolution, and reconciliation, for those who are truly sorry, God is merciful, and always loves you. If you don't care or believe about any of that, that's fine. Nobody is asking you to. You don't have to be Catholic, or any other religion. And as a Catholic you make your own choices, taking into consideration what you know, Catholic teaching, and your conscience, no-one is enforcing this, you have free will and "primacy of conscience". It's my choice to be Catholic, and I don't feel any disadvantage as a female Catholic, I definitely don't feel Catholicism is "anti-woman". Though I've heard of the bad things that have happened in the past, I've heard of abuses in Magdalen/e laundries in Ireland (institutions originally intended to help bring women out of prostitution), and forced adoption from unmarried mothers who wanted to keep their babies. Those things, and others, are awful and don't represent the teachings of Catholicism I know. There are no teachings that tell to do those things. Those things are contrary to teaching and contrary to the Gospels.

Anyway, I don't know why we're talking about Catholicism in this thread, but it always seems to happen that when something involving Islam is criticised, people start to talk about and criticise Christians/Catholics instead. And these things I'm replying to that you mentioned, and that others mentioned aren't related to the topic of "mutaa marriages" of this thread, so not sure why people turned it into free reign to "bash the Catholics".

If there was a thread about child sex abuse in the Catholic church, or about what occurred in some Magdalen/e laundaries in Ireland, I wouldn't respond by listing all the things I think are bad about other religions, be it Islam, Judaism, or whatever. And I wouldn't call those religions and others "cults", as you've called mine, as that is incorrect, insulting, and alienates and hurts the women belonging to those religions who are reading.

P.S. I know as an adult I've had and continue to have different opinions on abortion in general. I'm a leftie in general, but I've become more personally cautious on this since I learned myself as an adult about the week-by-week fetal development and the methods of abortion at different stages of pregnancy from medical information, not religious, websites, including the nhs, I read and saw things I found awful, and I was very shocked at some of it, because somehow I had no idea what happened. I don't think I had thought about it. Especially shocked at later term abortion methods, and also when looking at different abortion methods used at different stages, alongside the week-by-week development of the fetus, or unborn baby, how it develops and what it can do at each stage. For example what is shown about each week on these mother-to-be websites: www.babycentre.co.uk/pregnancy-week-by-week . That's the reality though, and I don't believe it should be hidden. People should have informed choices. After reading week-by-week fetal development, and abortion methods, personally I think abortion after around 8-10 weeks seems wrong,(unless medically necessary), based on the knowledge of fetal development, not any religious beliefs. Not judging though. Definitely think it shouldn't happen after viability, by law. For Catholics (though there has been different viewpoints in the past) official church teaching is that deliberate abortion at any stage from conception to birth is a no-no (except when life is in danger, as I described above). Obviously it's not enforced and we have free will. For myself I would agree and abide by that myself. But I do not think anyone else, Catholic or not should be forced to. Everyone is free to make their own choices. Of course I don't think abortion (or contraception, of course, haha) should be made illegal. The woman has to make her own decision. I absolutely don't agree with people who advocate for abortion all the way to birth. I don't agree with (and am put off by) a lot of the rhetoric in the US on abortion. From both sides. I do think there should be a time limit for free choice (not medically necessary) abortion, I'm not sure when, I think the U.K. has it a bit late, but that's apparently very rare and apparently when medically necessary, but idk. I'm not trying to change the law, and don't think anyone should. If anyone wants to prevent abortion they should not use law to ban it, they should aim to enable the change of hearts and minds, changed freely, by making all information available, and make sure everyone is provided for with healthcare, financially, housing, and safety. The woman has to make her own free decision. And of course provide plenty of free wide ranging contraceptives for both man and woman. Also, I would like the church to officially change the teaching on contraception, you'd think if they want to prevent abortion they would do that. I'm not an expert on the US but from what I hear, the state needs to provide free/affordable healthcare, paid maternity and paternity leave, and should provide welfare payments and social housing so that nobody is forced into abortion for financial reason. I don't know if laws exist anywhere against a man forcing a woman to have an abortion, I think that should be against the law. It happens. Anyway, like I said, this is very off topic, not related to the thread. And I don't want to get in any debate over these issues, or feel forced to defend my faith and the mere fact I belong to one, constantly, especially where it's off topic. I've tried to reply as best I can. Everyone has their own free will on the issues. If you don't like it, don't do it and don't be a part of it. That goes to both sides. I'm not trying to attack, judge, misrepresent, or dictate to anyone, please don't do that to me either.

Powerful men pimping children and vulnerable women. Ecclesiastes 1:9 springs to mind- there is nothing new under the sun. Elsewhere in the Old Testament the reader is instructed to give 10% of their stuff to the church. Word of god, my arse.

Word of god, my arse.

Well, you'd better hope for your own sake that it isn't otherwise you're going to find out what it is like to have your roasted arse handed to you.

Yeah I know. There's a lot of good stuff in the Bible too but I don't fancy being expected to be willing to stab my child to death (Abraham/Isaac) to prove my love for my abuser God, being expected to profess my love for my abuser God even after he has annihilated my home, family and possessions in a blokey pissing contest (Job- the family members being treated as possessions for God to destroy to prove a point, rather than humans in their own right), throwing my daughters out of the house to be gang raped by a mob instead of letting two strangers take their chances (Lot; from what I can gather the point of that was that gay sex happening would have been worse than gang rape regardless of who was getting raped) or being turned into a pillar of salt for daring to disobey my abuser God by glancing back over my shoulder (Lot's unfortunate wife although on reflection being turned into a pillar of salt was probably preferable to living with that arsehole under the eye of his controlling God-master and trying to help the daughters they have psychologically fucked up beyond repair).

Oddly enough, when I tried to discuss any of this sort of thing in RE lessons I was told that I "didn't understand because only God can really understand" (what a load of gaslighting crap).

The Bible and I expect every other religious text were written by influential rich men to make the populace- women, slaves, the poor- feel happy with their lot, scared of what would happen if they rocked the boat and keep on dishing out money, labour and sex to their masters without complaining. The Bible is no more the word of god who cares for the downtrodden any more than Trump or Farage are men of the people.

FumingMrsJustice that was a useful post thank you.

I know a number of Muslims who would all find this practice abhorrent.

Aa always there are men who exploit religion to abuse women, it happens in every religion and seems to be in every society.

Part of why I haven't commented on this is it is so hard to work out what we can do. It's easier to comment on a topic where we can add our voice to the dissenters but for this it would need world politicians to raise it and show their disapproval and we know they don't even make much of an effort to reprimand Saudi clerics when it's prominent men at risk let alone girls.

All religions are man made. Made by men to benefit men.

I think there is some misunderstanding here. ALL marriages in Islam are contract marriages in that the man and woman sign a contract that states they are willing to marry each other. many contracts will also detail extras such as dowry / what the woman is entitled to in terms of property brought into the marriage etc because in Islam women and their families need to he refunded in the event of a divorce.

Mutaa / Masyar marriages (temporary / traveller) marriages are also contractual marriages and in Islam were designed to give the children of affair partners legal recognition. It was also a means for the legal recognition of a ‘live in’ relationship that would otherwise not have been accepted - similar to ‘common law marriage’. For example men / women who couldn’t afford dowry, men / women who married non-muslims, men who couldn’t afford to house their wife per Islamic law, or men who were already married 4 times / couldn’t contact their existing wives to get permission for another permanent marriage. In many cases independently wealthy women also insisted on temporary marriages to protect their children’s inheritances.

‘Traveller marriages’ were never designed to legalise prostitution. That’s the bit that’s wrong here.

As with most things - good intentions and all that, then men find a nice loophole.

@ LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD - exactly and it’s especially difficult in places where the Imams often can only recite not read the original Qu’raan and so can just make shit up. This is why we need Saudi Arabia / Iran etc to have accreditation systems for Imams like the Vatican does - it shouldn’t be possible for anyone to become an Imam if they aren’t proficient in Ancient Arabic.

Doesn't surprise me at all

Teddybear I agree with what you said but sadly, and speaking as someone brought up catholic, the words 'like the Vatican does' in relation to anything involved in protecting women and children gives me the shudders

I'd never heard of this.
Disappointed but not surprised.

I just watched the BBC news report on this. So angry for young girls subjected to this. The segment started off showing girls as young as 12 being married to much older men I a sharia court. There were many fathers there and one said they have to be married young. Men don't want them older than 13-14. He said '18 is too old😱 WTF . Most of these illegal marriages end in divorce leaving the girls with nothing, except maybe a child they can't afford to feed.

They then moved on to pleasure marriages with the girl featured in the web story being interviewed. Her life has been ruined. Clerics told the undercover reporter 10 yr olds are old enough to marry. Muslim clerics are arranging for men to rape under age girls.

I'm absolutely raging about this Dh sat in stunned silence. We have a 14 yr old daughter and I think this really brought it home to him how women and girls are worthless to many. I support Action Aid who have many projects for girls used as sex slaves. Off to check if they have any projects in Iraq.

Caught up on the rest of the thread and just wanted to say I am a lapsed Catholic and for me Old Testament teachings are little to do with Christianity. Most of the bible study we did in school was the Gospels. I am very ignorant of much of the Old Testament except the stories Adam & Eve, Noah''s ark, Moses. We were told stories about Jesus turning water into wine, helping the poor and sick and teaching love and tolerance.

I don't know why, but it always bugs me when the fire and brimstone religious types (in the US especially) call themselves Christian when they base their beliefs on the Old Testament not the Gospels. The clues in the name- Christ (if you believe in him) wasn't in the Old Testament. The old testament says 'an eye for an eye ' Jesus said 'turn the other cheek'. Sorry massive derail! Don't want to move the thread away from the horrific treatment of girls in Iraq.

In Islam, the man can divorce his wife whenever he wants to, even a few hours after marrying her. There's absolutely nothing that prohibits him from divorcing her, and he can do so without any reasons.

However, marriage in Islam is an agreement between the man and the woman, where they both can put conditions, like a pre-nuptial.

Al Mutaa is a marriage where the woman puts the condition that there's an expiry date on the marriage, but that the man doesn't have to pay her as he would do if he was the one to divorce her. It was mostly used, and socially acceptable, for post-menopausal women.

Like everything else, it was twisted by men so they can use and abuse younger girls.