Mixed Relay - World Athletics Championships

[Dyrne]

I’m watching the World Athletics Championships because my Size 20 arse can really critique world class athletes and there was a new-ish event involving the Relay being 2 x Men and 2 x Women. Quite an interesting concept - and really shows the difference between men and women as in some of the heats they’ve got women running against men in the legs; and some interesting tactics.

What’s odd is on the BBC commentary, Michael Johnson got really funny about the event - essentially questioning what the point of the event was and saying “innovation is important but this isn’t the way to do it”.

I found this odd, as surely you can say that about any event in athletics? You’ve got the 100m and the 400m, so why bother with the 200m? The vibe I was getting was very much “Why should elite male athletes lower themselves to compete alongside women?” The other commentators were trying to talk around it but he stuck to his opinion that the mixed relay was a massive waste of time and kept calling it “fun”, like it wasn’t a real sport and not worthy of being taken seriously.

Maybe someone more au-fait with athletics can explain the reasoning; but is Michael Johnson just a massive misogynistic twat?

I think the issue was the placing of it - ie before the individual events which could detract from later performance and therefore affects team choices.

Incidentally, I was watching the women’s 200m heats yesterday with my 9 year old. We came to amitanou seyni (dont know this athlete or their status) as the camera panned and she said “that ones a man”. We watched this athlete storm past the rest and she declared “it’s not fair”. So my 9 year old gets it (on a day when my 12 year old was informed by an adult female teacher that feminists are more likely to have short hair and wear a suit and tie. Yes really).

Anyone watch the women's 800 metres?

Yes, great win for Nakaayi, really good race, Raven Rogers almost, almost snuck it. Did spare a thought for 2013 champion Eunice Sum though, who is one of the most impacted of all athletes by the nonsense of allowing males to compete. Funny how the woke brigade never spare a thought for her when shrieking 'racist' at others.

Also really enjoyed Chepkoech's imperious steeplechase win, putting 2017's brain fart to bed forever.

Did spare a thought for 2013 champion Eunice Sum though, who is one of the most impacted of all athletes by the nonsense of allowing males to compete. Funny how the woke brigade never spare a thought for her when shrieking 'racist' at others

Yes it's a remarkable coincidence isn't it? Twitter is full of people making arses of themselves by suggesting that Lynsey Sharp's weak performance here in some way impacts the argument that people with high testosterone because of their Y chromosomes shouldn't be in women's races, but it's fine to throw black women who don't have a Y chromosome under the bus. Some are more equal than others, it would seem.

Yes it's a remarkable coincidence isn't it?

It demonstrates how quick people are to virtue signal on matters they know the square root of f all about.

You could not possibly have missed the domination of East Africans in middle and long distance events if you actually watched athletics.

Indeed not. And honestly, I think some of them seem to think there aren't any intersex people in wealthier countries. As if the US, China etc were going to say oh ok, we'll let you have this advantage to yourselves and not look into whether we could replicate it, if it were established that Semenya and Chand could compete without reducing their testosterone.

As if the US, China etc were going to say oh ok, we'll let you have this advantage to yourselves and not look into whether we could replicate it, if it were established that Semenya and Chand could compete without reducing their testosterone.

Exactly. It would simply set up an 'arms race' with other nations seeking out people with the same conditions, and in some cases not giving them any say in whether or not they wished to be used in such a manner.

We've seen it all before with doping. We know what went on in the old Eastern block because it collapsed but we'd be fools to think the west wasn't involved as well. I'm old enough to remember the Ben Johnson debacle and subsequent Canadian enquiry where they came clean about how much doping was going on. Other western nations may have stood around whistling going 'not us guv, oh noes' but it would be naïve to think we weren't all at it.

And some of those records stand to this day to the detriment of women athletes in particular.

"Incidentally, I was watching the women’s 200m heats yesterday with my 9 year old. We came to amitanou seyni (dont know this athlete or their status) as the camera panned and she said “that ones a man”."

Your daughter is more qualified than the IOC and IAAF.
This one slipped right under my radar. It is ludicrous that they are being allowed to compete at all, because testosterone is an anabolic steroid and makes most difference to sprinters. Seyni broke the Nigerian national record for 200m yesterday.

olympics.nbcsports.com/2019/09/30/aminatou-seyni-testosterone-rule/

I watched this race and thought it was a powerful illustration of why women need to compete with women. I don't think it added much in terms of entertainment value to the championships and the scheduling of it was very poor.

I enjoy the mixed relay in triathlon where it's now become an established fixture, but it didn't have the tradition of single-sex relays that athletics has, so there was room for it. I don't think it's needed in athletics.

So that’s a woman denied a place in semi finals 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Back in June there were obviously a few people who were aware of this. This twitter feed contains a video of a quite remarkable 400m run from Seyni - impossibly remarkable in fact.
I have to correct my previous post where for some reason I stated that she is Nigerian. She represents Indonesia.

twitter.com/pjvazel/status/1138918409419264001

I see who you mean now.

DH just called Seyni as a man as the camera panned without even hesitating.

I must be losing my marbles, because Seyni is from Niger. - assuming I have not made another error.
Anyway, who in their right mind would think it is OK to let a 200/400m runner with XY chromosomes run in the 200m for women and not the 400m for women?
The reasoning given, as I understand it, was that testosterone doesn't make as much difference in the 200m.
Yes you heard that correctly, testosterone, an anabolic steroid doesn't make as much difference in a sprint event???
So why do sprinters who dope, such as Justin Gatlin, always use testosterone or some similar product - stanazolol in the case of Ben Johnson.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Gatlin#Doping_bans

Andy not losing your marbles. Why is he even in the women’s events ?

andyoldlabour Perhaps he identifies as coming from Indonesia?

Erm! If DSD is rare how come so many people with "differences in sexual development" are world class athletes, female ones at that?

I'm quite glad I have retired from teaching sport science but I am utterly staggreded that human physiology has changed so much since my last lecture on the effects of testosterone on fast twitch muscle performance. I don't know if I could keep up with modern evolution!

Micheal Johnson is my athletics hero.

His point was that there are many things that need to improve in athletics, innovation needs to fix these issues no just bring excitement. I thought it was great fun to watch and I love the equivalent in triathlon. However, athletics needs to solve its drugs problem, invigorate grass routes sports, improve attendance, stop ignoring field events at many competitions and figure out why so many excellent athletes stop competing as teens (and many, many other issues). The relay was fun to watch but doesn't address these type of issues.

"Andy not losing your marbles. Why is he even in the women’s events ?"

Because the IOC/IAAF lack a spine, they put feelings and hurts above biological reality.
As far as I can see, Seyni has only been running at this level for 3 years (23 years old) and has made quite rapid progress.
Seyni managed a 2nd place at the Diamond League Lausanne meeting on 5th July, setting a time of 49.19 seconds, which I believe is quicker than Christine Ohurugu's British record - not bad for a virtual unknown from Niger.

www.iaaf.org/athletes/niger/aminatou-seyni-321277

Forme it makes enjoying the world athletics not so enjoyable

I feel I have to keep looking at the women athletes and wondering

The commentator called him he last night in the 200 metres semi

"I'm quite glad I have retired from teaching sport science but I am utterly staggreded that human physiology has changed so much since my last lecture on the effects of testosterone on fast twitch muscle performance. I don't know if I could keep up with modern evolution!"

I agree Curious, this new "science" is a strange beast indeed.
Perhaps the powers that be, think that sprinters are powered by the aerobic system rather than the anaerobic ATP/CP system. They probably have not heard of the lactate system which kicks in from 15 - 20 seconds.

If they want to improve attendance at events they could start with holding them in places where people are actually interested. Just a thought.

I'm a massive sports fan and work in the industry. I'm not interested in watching unfair competition, it totally undermines women's sport. Will spectators switch off and sponsors follow?

The relay was fun to watch but doesn't address these type of issues

After yesterday I am officially annoyed by this relay.

Yesterday I watched the semi finals of the women's 200m. And the semi finals of the women's 400m.

Shaunae Miller-Uibo* has had to choose between these two events because of scheduling. In the past athletes were able to double up. The time slot taken by the mixed relay could have gone to the women's 400m. Stupid, stupid organisers.

*others may have been forced into similar choices

I'm also annoyed at the BBC neglecting to cover the women's javelin. And ignoring the bronze medallist in the men's pole vault. They also completely failed to show the bronze medal jump in the men's triple jump earlier in the week.

I don't want to watch people sitting in a studio wittering. I want to watch the damn athletics.

Arghh!

"I don't want to watch people sitting in a studio wittering. I want to watch the damn athletics."

I agree, and if they are going to witter, then make it a bit challenging. Talk a bit more about the Salazar doping case, explain to the viewers about Seyni, giving the comparison to Semenya. Get Ross Tucker on to explain scientifically why athletes such as Seyni should not be competing in women's sport.