Times article about LGBT teaching in Scottish primary and nurseries

[Igneococcus]

Haven't read it fully yet because I'm on my way out of the house but thought I share:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/some-families-have-two-dads-preschool-children-are-taught-wkvxgh2gs?shareToken=903ae2318b3c5170093a2bae3b264d68

Transgender people are introduced at level three, for P5 to P7, which “encourages children to be whatever kind of girl or boy they want to be, free from stereotypes and gender-biased expectations”.

This seems to be very contradictory...

As children enter high school they are given more explicit advice, including on anal sex, pornography and sex toys. Those in the senior phase from S4 upward are taught about sexually transmitted diseases, prostitution and the dangers of drugs and alcohol

This implies they are going to teach about anal sex before teaching about sexually transmitted diseases. I hope to hell that isn't the case.

Here's what teenagers need to know about anal sex. It is NOT something most heterosexual couples are interested in. It is ALWAYS acceptable to say HELL NO. Anyone who does not accept your hell no does not respect you. It is physically damaging and sexually transmitted diseases are more easily transmitted via anal than NORMAL (yes, NORMAL) penis ion vagina sex. Some, not all, gay men enjoy it because men have prostates, but it is NOT something all gay men enjoy. They can also say HELL NO and should have their hell no respected.

As for pornography, they should be taught, if you watch porn a third of you boys won't be able to get it up by the time you're 35. Porn addicts are sad losers. Porn is always degrading.

I think that about covers it.

What on earth are the "explicit images" that teachers can show children who don't understand the descriptions? Are they basically going to be showing children porn? Pretty sure that's illegal.

If they don't understand the descriptions is that because they have SEN?

Strangely worded/framed article that isn't entirely clear.

Comments solid so far.

In the comments..

Unable to comment on salmond....is he off the hook?

Followed by

No, nine charges of sexual assault, two of attempted rape, two of indecent assault and one of breach of the peace will be hard to wish away.

Anyone know what this is about?

I have absolutely no objections to kids being taught along the lines of ‘encourages children to be whatever kind of girl or boy they want to be, free from stereotypes and gender-biased expectations”. Fine and dandy. But that’s totally not what being transgender is about is it? It’s the exact opposite. It’s about adopting the stereotypes and gender biases of the sex you weren’t born in surely?

The thing is, this stuff runs together a number of different topics really.

I have no issue with my children understanding about LGB relationships and they see them in our own friends and families.

Transgender is a very different kettle of fish and risks reinforcing unhelpful gender stereotype.

Discussing boundaries and that it is always acceptable to say no and stop, good stuff. Anal sex - I dunno, flagging its existence is one thing but it is not something that should be presented as expected or widespread in hetero relationships whatever porn would have you believe and again BOUNDARIES. There should be a huge emphasis on informed consent, respecting your partner and yourself and sex being a mutually e notable experience, and not something that men do to women.

remember being taught at school when I was around 15 that anal was something some people chose to do, but exactly as a pp pointed out, it carries physical risks that PIV sex doesn't and it's easier to catch stds too.

a lot has changed in 25 years hasn't it?

Teachers educating those with additional needs have access to a password-protected section of the site with explicit images for children who may not understand verbal guidance or suggestive pictures

SO MANY QUESTIONS

1. are the pictures password protected because they would be considered pornographic?
2. does that mean this curriculum suggests showing porn to children with SEN?
3. what are these 'suggestive' pictures that appear to be intended to be shown to children as a matter of course?

This doesn't sound right, does it?

Wow, have to say I don't have much to add to points made by earlier posters...

It's stuff like this that makes SNP come across as unelectable to me and almost (just almost) pushes me towards considering voting Scottish Tories as sometimes feels like on topics like this they're the only voice of reason.

And this is coming from a very liberal person. I just feel like a lot of current politicians and educators are full of good intentions and then end up getting overly excitable by whatever the latest trendy bandwagon is... Like stonewall & mermaids on these topics.... They're so desperate to appear modern and tolerant that they don't really think things through (or even worse perhaps they choose to ignore common sense as they fear being called intolerant by lobbyists).

It's stuff like this that makes SNP come across as unelectable to me and almost (just almost) pushes me towards considering voting Scottish Tories as sometimes feels like on topics like this they're the only voice of reason.

The problem is this is a cross party push, every party is the same, even Tories. Your choice here it's the definitely will do vs the probably will do.

I guess this is the site they are talking about?

rshp.scot/

This seems ok n

It's alright, but people treat you a certain way because of your sex, not because of your gender.

Also the opening line contradicts everything else doesn't it.

Link to page that sunflower's screenshot came from.
rshp.scot/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Part-2.-More-about-gender-Activity-plan-2.pdf

Gender is a different thing. We could say that gender is a mix of our biological sex, how we feel about our identity and how we choose to express ourselves.

This is using gender to mean an identity. This is the view of gender as a lifestyle. It implies that our 'gender' is a choice.

Gender is also about how we experience life. For example, if someone thinks we are a woman they might treat us one way, if they think we are a man they might treat us a different way.

The way people treat us is because of our sex and the gendered expectations of our sex. It is not something we have any choice or control over.

As Captain says, the statement is contradictory.

The only possible reason why a site might have password stuff for Send is that it's using Widgit and as such has copyrighted resources.

Other than that, I can see no valid reason why mainstream pupils couldn't see what send pupils could see and in fact it would only support their understanding further. If it's inappropriate for mainstream pupils it's definitely inappropriate for pupils with send.

www.widgit.com/

Also this.

They do also give the UN definition of gender, which defines it as culturally constructed, and not a choice, so contradicting their own definition.

The section on gender stereotypes (sex stereotypes but whatever) is okay but it's followed up with this (this is material for kids in the last three years of primary school):

Parents/carers who are communicating with teachers/educators about a child who is expressing their wish to be identified as transgender might be interested in this blog with animations, produced by a mother of a transgender child, it tells the story of their experience together:

www.howtobeagirlpodcast.com/videos

This is a blog from an American woman whose son identified as a girl from the age of three because he liked glitter, pink and princesses.

I'm pretty impressed by the section on prostitution which states very clearly the harm it does.

Pasted in text above is from this section: rshp.scot/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Part-3.-Being-transgender-Activity-plan.pdf

This is the section on gender stereotypes from the same part of the guidance: rshp.scot/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Part-1.-Stereotypes-and-Equality-Activity-plan.pdf

These sections are in direct contradiction to each other.

Male subjects often expressed that they wanted to have anal sex to mimic pornography
and because it was more pleasurable than vaginal penetration, while women mainly said
they did it to please their partners. There was a shared understanding between
interviewees that women were supposed to be begged or forced into participating and
should expect it to hurt, and if they turned down anal sex, they were uptight. The idea of
“if you try it, you’ll like it” was frequently referred to as a tactic men used to convince
women to try it. And unfortunately, many subjects were unaware that STIs can easily be
transmitted through anal sex. Women’s Health magazine 2014
www.womenshealthmag.com/sex-and-love/a19931416/anal-sex/

Anal sex advice which recognises it is something girls and women are often pressured into.