Greta Thunberg

[Gingerkittykat]

twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1176930548146692096

*Here we go again...
As you may have noticed, the haters are as active as ever - going after me, my looks, my clothes, my behaviour and my differences.8

It looks like she faces the normal misogynistic bullshit most women face when men want to shut them down. Can't argue with her message so just attack her looks to try and discredit her.

Thankfully she seems strong and with her head switched on, I hope this doesn't put her off having her voice heard.

I think that what is happening to Greta is tantamount to child abuse and I can’t understand how any adult could stand by and let this happen to her or think that it’s a good thing in any way.

She has a long history of various manifestations of depression and anxiety, now she’s in a tremendously exposed and high profile position with the eyes of social media upon her. How happy would any of us be if it was our daughter in this position?

She is being pumped full of eco-anxiety by adults and is simply regurgitating what she’s heard - and is being applauded for it by people who should know much better. Where are the grown-ups who should be comforting her anxiety, soothing her and presenting her with a more balanced perspective?

This is so wrong.

but nobody gets this amount of establishment attention and support unless it somehow suits powerful global corporate interests.

I guess the question is: are those global corporate interests (the organisation We Don’t Have Time acc that article) planning to put in place a green economy which is going to keep us under the tipping point?

It may still be capitalism but if it benefits the world why should we oppose it?

Where are the grown-ups who should be comforting her anxiety, soothing her and presenting her with a more balanced perspective?

But according to the scientists there is no balanced perspective?

Thanks to those who got through my earlier long post which has quite a few errors as I wrote in haster when I was tired.

Just to summarise my points:

Why are the main stream meda so invested in promoting the Greta myth?

What will the impact be on her when they turn their back on her as she herself has said it has given her more sense of be part of something that before

Why is her campaigning basically apolitical and focusing on her personal reaction to the issue (as she understands it - something wicked being done to young people by selfish older people)?

Why do so many people, even in the hard left, accept a message that in fact is only true of a small western white elite who have had a life style of high consumerism whilst many in their own countries, but even more so those in developing countries have never had.

Why does this message apeal to so many people so that across the globe young people waved off by doting parents are re-enacting photo op moments and sharing emotional stories of how worrying it is that they might be arrested. Golly, gosh, how awful! (Though noticeable that today when again there were friday actions across the world the main stream media was a bit yawn, didn't we do that last week?)

Why is it all about public statements and never about how they are going to change their over consumption. Am beginning to feel they do know they might have to give up their social media life style and are basically pleading for the grown ups to find an eco friendly way of producing the electricity that will allow they to share on line their hyper politcal selfie moments. (Compare these actions to the real life confrontation generated protests in Hong Kong. There young people really are on the front line - and in real danger from police).

I will admit that part of my sceptical response to Greta Thunberg is influenced by the truely moronic actions of Extinction Rebellion (one of whose founders admits they though it up during an acid trip!) and as far as I know she has never told them to behave in the way they do.

This is one of the articles (similar to ones published in other countries since the start of the year but have not dented the myth) pointing out how the original photo of the lone Greta protest was a construct. www.thetimes.co.uk/article/greta-thunberg-and-the-plot-to-forge-a-climate-warrior-9blhz9mjv

And this is Greta Thunberg's response (or is it really her/) from her (TM) facebook page www.facebook.com/gretathunbergsweden/posts/773676963000126 - which makes me realise if any of us are on facebook we could ask these questions.

As a footnote having raised the issue of the level of pollution through computing and particularly cloud based applications, how many of you use grey water (or in the US gray water)? One of those things that again poverty are more likely to make you implement as much as climate change issues. Just as being part of a communit dependent on welfare and foodbanks are not contributing to the emmissions from jet flights and throw away clothing.

But according to the scientists there is no balanced perspective?

Of course there is. Science isn’t about consensus. That’s not how it works.

Does anyone else find the way Time magazine have done a photoshoot of Greta Thunberg as it to say underneath that campaigning image is just another young girl yearning to be soft and sexy?

Maybe she does?

Why does the media always have to dumb down issues to their facile level?

Not sure if these links will work

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Add to all of that the Nobel Prize nomination and I suspect we will see an about face in some of that fawning media...

I hope she has someone near to her who is ready and capable of supporting her when she reaches her limit!

From the article in The Times:

The Climate Emergency Plan’s talking points are Greta’s talking points. “Around the year 2030, in 10 years, 252 days and 10 hours,” the Scandinavian Cassandra told British parliamentarians in April, “we will be in a position where we set off an irreversible chain reaction beyond human control that will most likely lead to the end of our civilisation as we know it.”

That's not science. It's something a scientist-glasses-wearing Jodie Foster would say in a Hollywood disaster movie.

Does anyone else find the way Time magazine have done a photoshoot of Greta Thunberg as it to say underneath that campaigning image is just another young girl yearning to be soft and sexy?

No, I don't see that. Thunberg is not a young girl, she's 16, a young woman but constantly presented as much younger than she is, which she looks maybe because she is a naturally late developer but I suspect, sadly, due to her eating disorder. The images remind me of a much younger child playing dress up in mummy's clothes.

This presentation of a 16 year old as a much younger child is one of the things I find most uncomfortable about the whole situation.

That's not science. It's something a scientist-glasses-wearing Jodie Foster would say in a Hollywood disaster movie.

Exactly! It isn’t right that she’s saying this stuff and scaring kids shitless while adult stand around her applauding like trained seals.

Does anyone else find the way Time magazine have done a photoshoot of Greta Thunberg as it to say underneath that campaigning image is just another young girl yearning to be soft and sexy?

That’s not my idea of soft and sexy. It’s just weird.

I am uncomfortable with the image portrayed in those photos too but greateful to have seen them and your accompanying posts stumbledin

Arnold is right that she looks much younger than heer years, even allowing for the fact she would not want to wear lots of make up etc.

Until I read this thread, I saw Greta as unproblematically a good thing, fighting against governments who were not doing enough. Now I think why are we being presented with Greta when the UN etc should be doing more about the Preseident of Brazil and his attitude to Amazon deforestation etc?

She is a very talented and charismatic young woman but I do worry what will happen when the media move on. I have never felt that about Malala who comes across as much more resilient and also having a very sophisticated understanding of how to create change.

I am not trying to compare one against the other in a negative way. I just worry that the media does reinforce the 'tall poppy syndrome'. I hope Greta and her family are prepared for this.

That's an interesting point.

Has in fact her normal image been about making her look younger than she is? Sorry not meaning to say it has all been about manipulation.

Not sure what the average 16 year old scandinavian looks like.

Also, my comments may have been a bit influenced by a news reports that some of the really ancient white men of the French Academy complaining she isn't sexy enough. Yuk.

Quote: “In my generation, boys would run after les petites Anglaises or les petites Suédoises: they had a reputation for being less stuck-up than French girls,” said Pivot. “But I can imagine adolescent me being scared stiff of Greta Thunberg.” He called her the “furious Swede”.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/left-bank-french-intellectuals-grumble-at-greta-thunberg-not-sexy-enough-6wwj5vjjs

I dont know which is worse being unknowingly manipulated by the very partial way news is reported, or being constantly disbelieving of any news story as I assume there is distortion and manipulation in the way it is being (partially) reported.

stumbledin

I can't claim to be an authority on the matter but have spent some time in Scandinavia, mostly Norway as my aunt lived there, over the years and to me Scadinavian teenagers look pretty much the same as UK ones.

With Greta Thunberg I think there are two issues. One is her actual physical body. To be blunt she looks prepubescent to me. If I didn't know she was 16 I'd guess 10. Obviously people vary and she may simply be a late developer but talk of eating disorders makes me suspect her puberty has been delayed due to malnutrition.

That is not really relevant or anyone else's business though. What I find more troubling is the styling, both the pigtails which I associate with younger girls, not teenagers, but also images like the ones you posted from Time. The dress seems too large for her. She's wearing scruffy trainers with it which don't go and which remind me of children playing dress up. That's the 'presentation as a younger child' vibe I'm uncomfortable with.

Until I read this thread, I saw Greta as unproblematically a good thing, fighting against governments who were not doing enough. Now I think why are we being presented with Greta when the UN etc should be doing more about the Preseident of Brazil and his attitude to Amazon deforestation etc?

Precisely.

But that's Greta's bloody point! That's what she's saying.

The only people who want to foreground this as being a story about her are the people who want to do nothing about climate change.

somebrightmorning

Yes - but no.

Accepting in the most positive way that she is in contact with people who campaign or are in PR, a long time ago they should have stopped and said, we dont want this to be Greta Thunberg show. How do we make this a campaign that challenges the status quo.

But endlessly lining up stunts (sailing across the Atlantic) meeting high profile leaders always in lonely heroine mode, just feeds into the medias obsession with making every thing an episode of celebrity high lights. Our own politics is just little more than tittle tattle about who's got the most click bait potnetial.

I'm not saying its easy given the vested interests, but as it is she is just playing into the hands of those who set the media agenda.

She could spend the rest of her life endlessly re-enacting the angry teenager but if it is only ever a performance that those it should be touching are just consuming as an event, or even using to promote themselves as somehow sympathetic, then you need to stand back and re think tactics.

I don't agree.

She isn't re-enacting the angry teenager.

Either 99% of the world's scientists are wrong or Greta's statements are pretty moderate and her actions entirely appropriate. I think her campaigns are great.

I picked up somewhere, and believe it's true, that men get to be known for what they do and women get to be known for what men do to them.

We know the name Malala Yousafzai because of the man who shot her in the head. I am glad to know the name Greta Thunberg for what she has chosen to do and not as a reaction to a terrible thing a man did to her, although men's backlash against her seems to be looking larger in the public eye these past few days.

Greta's statements are pretty moderate

Nobody's saying they aren't. Or that she isn't a great kid who's committed to a worthy cause.

People are questioning why she is being used as a mascot by the Third Sector Industrial Complex and the Richard Branson School of Money To Be Made in Environmentalism.

We're questioning it in the same way we question the actual value of other corporate charities such as Oxfam.

Establishment support is a red flag for anything that purports to be challenging the status quo.

This is interesting. A comment piece from Meghan Murphy on the Greta Thunberg media storm.

Meghan Murphy

Yup it was good stumbled in

My views are not so catastrophic as others with CC.

Yes the climate is changing. Always has, always will. But I'm more sceptical about the degree in is man made. For sure, we have to get our act together over pollution. But a lot of scientists do disagree it is catastrophic and close, they are just shut down or don't get search engine time (see thread Google These Words).

It's the hysteria that bugs me, and as Murphy said it is played out almost exactly like the trans narrative.

I love her, too. And I think she's the judge of whether she's too young for the fame. She handles it with extraordinary grace, at least so far.

As for those objecting that she's a figurehead for a doomed cause, you know what? You don't actually know that. (Unless, of course, you really are clairvoyant.) Progress is only achieved by the actions of people who didn't know they were attempting the impossible.

I say Good for her! Long may she continue to inspire us with her blunt truth and megawatt glare at obstructionists!

I don’t think she’s a figurehead of a doomed cause I just think she gets some pretty crucial things wrong! Although what 16 year old doesn’t? She’s an effective tool though for her side as any dissent can be safely re-framed as bullying a child.

Thanks for linking the Meghan Murphy piece. It articulates a lot of my unease, especially this:
If we are not permitted to think or speak critically about a leader, they cannot be a leader. We cannot have leaders that we are not allowed to hold to account.

And having tried to follow some of the science and the history behind climate change, I have to say it's shifted me towards Yeah's position. I'm surprised to find myself here but I'm beginning to wonder why any scientist who questions how much of climate change is CO2 (as opposed to an inevitable cycle) is denounced as a 'denier'. At best it's lazy thinking and at worst it's .... well I've not decided yet.