Trans rules for Japan 2020 on ice?

[RedToothBrush]

Back page of tomorrows guardian

Interesting it's on the actual back page.. once football season starts, I seem to struggle to find any other sport covered until I've waded back a few pages.

The Guardian too... will be interested to read the article and how they've spun it tomorrow!

amp.theguardian.com/sport/2019/sep/24/ioc-delays-new-transgender-guidelines-2020-olympics
IOC delays new transgender guidelines after scientists fail to agree
• Draft proposals have ‘gone around the houses’
• Sporting federations urged to create own policies

This isn't actually a good thing. We need the madness of this exposed sooner rather than,after. The 2020 Olympics would have been ideal.

Thanks for the link... hmm - balanced, I guess although this quote made me cross:

This is such a tricky political and emotive issue

No - in sport, it's really not. Biology should be all that defines which class you compete in - fucking feelings don't bloody cut it. Also, fucking cis.. the reason there are not many transwomen in elite sport is because of the rules.. remove those and there will be a deluge of mediocre men outstripping the elite women - fuck that!

Surely this is a good thing. Women have made enough noise to halt the trans juggernaut and the IOC will now be forced to look at the actual issues and sanity must now prevail. They only got this far by excluding women from the conversation. If transwomen aren't women for sports then other areas can be scrutinised. Well overdue.

Hopefully the likes of McKinnon and Katelyn Burns won't let it drop and it gets lots of publicity. It's not a winning argument for them with the average person whatever the woke folk think.

The article seems to be saying that plans to reduce the testosterone limit for trans women athletes even further have been put on hold until after the 2020 olympics. So what rules will apply then? The current ones where the limit is 10 times that of the average female? So nothing has changed then? Unless I'm reading it wrong?

Good question!

FromEden

Yes I read it the same. Laurel Hubbard still on track to compete, this report is basically saying no one has the balls (sorry, couldn’t resist) to make a decision to stop those of the male sex competing against women.

Incidentally, from the thread title, I thought this was going to be about figure skating and we were looking at a Chas Michael Michaels situation.

the whole subject is so politically charged

The only thing 'politically charged' is the fuss male-bodied and male-socialised people are making about their demands. Male fuss is political, serious, meaningful and important. Female fuss is silly, little, domestic hysteria.

whatever physical advantages transgender women have – and they certainly exist – they are not nearly as large as the sociological disadvantages.

sport must strive to be as inclusive as possible

Sociological disadvantages are what stand in the way of inclusivity in sport.

Physical advantages are what sport is about.

So, in order to include trans-identifying people in the opposite sex sport, perhaps a handicap system should be used.

Transwomen players could carry extra handicap points (like the extra weights added to a jockey who weighs too little), and transmen players could be given head-start points (like the advantage a weaker golfer gets given when playing against a much stronger golfer). In ball sports the transwoman playing against a women's team could have to play one-handed, whereas the men's team fielding a transman could be allowed an extra transman player to even out the differences between male and female bodies. Physical advantages and inclusivity both dealt with.

(Disclaimer: tongue firmly in cheek. TW do not belong in female sports.)

So the way I'm reading this we're still on course to have someone obviously male win big in Tokyo and for the whole world to see it.

That's shit for the women they're going to beat, but it may help peak trans everyone else.

Others, though, maintain that sport must strive to be as inclusive as possible
Sport is inclusive - all trans'women' can compete in the male division. All they have to do is reach qualifying level, same as everyone else. They should not get extra inclusion by being allowed to compete in the women's division.

"a reasonable compromise between inclusion and fairness". At least they admit this is a question of compromising on fairness.

If the Grauniad has put it on the back page, we're definitely getting somewhere. Puuuuullll!

“The transgender academic Joanna Harper has argued: “Transgender women after hormone therapy are taller, bigger and stronger on average than cisgender women. But that does not necessarily make it unfair.”

So - you acknowledge that transwomen have a huge physical advantage but that doesn’t make it unfair apparently.

We then have examples of 2 trans athletes who competed in the male competition before transition and subsequently gained medals in the women’s competition. In the U.K. we have recently had a transwoman cricketer playing for the men’s and women’s game on the same weekend. There’s no problem of inclusivity here, no balance needed between fairness and inclusion.

Japan 2020 on ice?

It's not the winter Olympics.

"Women's sport is not a validation service for men with identity issues".

Here's the link to the story on the website:

www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/sep/24/ioc-delays-new-transgender-guidelines-2020-olympics

Sean Ingle's reporting on this has been better than the Guardian's usual approach to trans stories.

I'm just going to say it even though I've said it before.

Fuck you, and fuck your 'inclusivity'.

That concept is one of thr biggest trojan horses i have ever seen.

It's not the winter Olympics.

Bring on the transwomen competing in the women's figure skating category, and in women's gymnastics. Nothing would bring on immediate peak trans for the general public more effectively.

Very much looking forward to the fully intact transwoman slipping on the balance beam.

See what that does to their T levels.

It means that we'll have multiple male winners of women's events in Tokyo. We've already had Semenya, Niyonsaba and Wambui winning gold, silver and bronze in the women's 800m. All male athletes.

Male athletes don't have to pretend to have intersex conditions any more. Progress, you see.

There will be a big rush of male competitors in women's events, because there is a possibility that this will be their only chance to compete in the women's category, given that the IOC might change their rules afterwards.

These males cannot afford to play the long game. Because there might not be a long game.

I hope that many female athletes get together, get a class action together and sue the arse out of the IOC for lost earnings.

World Championship athletics start next week. I'm not expecting many males to enter because there is much less prestige associated with it. Plus many male athletes will only have just started to reduce their testosterone in July this year, in order to make them eligible for the women's events in the Olympics next year.

And of course some male athletes have testosterone that is naturally on the low end of the male range.

They won't have to do a damn thing in order to qualify for women's events.

I don't agree with letting it happen (men in women's sports) because although it would cause outrage, you know how viciously dissenters are treated. Chances are it would be quickly normalised.

So - you acknowledge that transwomen have a huge physical advantage but that doesn’t make it unfair apparently.

It's because in that interview, after this has been acknowledged, Joanna then neatly moves the goalposts to the familiar "more oppressed than anyone in the history of the world" position which apparently cancels out the physical issues.

I can’t tell you what kind of dancing-on-ice-in-drag geisha extravaganza I imagined when I saw the thread title