Writing to your MP

[Speakoutwoman]

I wrote to my Tory MP about the toxic EHRC guidelines for trans pupils and for the first time got a horrified letter back talking about the safeguarding implications with a promise to follow this up with the Education minister.

This is the first time they have fallen off the fence about this so if you have't found the time to write, this is the issue where the silent MPs may speak out. Insisting on the boys and girls sharing changing rooms and showers is evidently a step too far. And the safeguarding implications of 11 year old girls having to change in front of 15 year old boys in after school clubs was not ignored.

Towards the end of this thread there are some good links from Safe Schools Alliance to help with a letter:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3692358-Girls-must-bow-to-trans-rights-in-new-rules-for-schools

Bumping this up for you so it doesn't get lost.

I’ve written awaiting response. FPFW are great also there was a good thread with some very useful posts.

I've been approaching my MP every few months, drip-dripping away. Check your MP's surgery schedule and do go for a face-to-face if you can. I think mine quite likes the chance for a chat about something other than Brexit and the state of the local roads and schools and I really do think that meeting them personally and proving that you are a rational, thoughtful, polite human being does help them 'get' the problem better than a letter. Don't assume they know anything about this issue. We think about it every day but some MPs appear to know nothing at all.

I'd suggest you read any material you send them or show them really carefully before you do so. I downloaded some stuff from one site because it contained a quote that I thought was a really useful way of summing up a certain aspect of the trans situation. Fortunately I took the time to read the entire article through carefully because on close inspection it was full of typos, badly written and became ranty and unreasonable. I give my MP a file of three or four articles each time I go. I use a highlighter pen to highlight a few good quotes so that their eye picks up instantly on something that makes them want to read more.

They have to read hundreds of pages of bumph a week – make it as easy as possible and only give them stuff that is well-thought-through and simple to understand. Sorry if I sound bossy but I know I and a couple of my friends have been our MP's main source of information and education on this subject and I think we are getting somewhere.

Got a response from my Tory MP. He knew nothing about them, was shocked and wanted to contact the relevant minister.

Thanks for the bump and yes, AlwaysTawnyOwl. They have no clue about the EHRC guidelines. I'll bet that if these are actually published, the response from appalled parents, let alone horrified children and teenagers would dwarf the Birmingham protests. But that's why it's important that these are halted - vulnerable children in schools are not playthings for these bloody adult groups to force their ideology on them. The fall out would be awful.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7490415/amp/Children-young-SIX-given-compulsory-self-touching-lessons.html?__twitter_impression=true and this.

Teaching a whole class about 'self stimulation' - or masturbating as it's normally called? Interesting that they change the language. I suppose this is the extension of the Peter Tatchell approach demanding compulsory mixed sex lessons for secondary age children on how to give sexual pleasure to others.

Children should grow up learning that sex is natural and not 'dirty' and that feelings and bodies are not unnatural - a change from the current "if you're unhappy with your body then here's some great drugs and surgery to change it". But is it a school's job to teach 6 year olds about sexual pleasure? How does a teacher differentiate these lessons? What about different emotional needs in a whole class? Which teachers are qualified to teach this? It's a bloody difficult issue to talk through with our own children and the assumption here is ordinary primary teachers will teach this?

the assumption here is ordinary primary teachers will teach this?

They will feel uncomfortable about it, but most will follow like good sheep. The others will be hounded out of the profession.

I've also had a reply from my MP, as have others who I encouraged to email him also.

There is no denying that women are doing their best to raise this as an issue.

I encourage others to email the EHRC directly too

[email protected]
[email protected]

I just briefly reworded the email I sent to my MP, and I got a very quick reply.

Seriously, who wants to talk about masturbation with their teacher?

Goosefoot
If you flip that, a teacher determined to talk to children about masturbation would be a cause for concern?

It's really tricky but there's something about boundaries in all this that makes me very uneasy.

i bet this will be very useful evidence for lowering age for sex content.

"judge ! kids are not innocent. in age 6 they do masturbation.
they are kink. they know what they do. (because school teach them:()"

looks like slippery slope.

there's something about boundaries in all this that makes me very uneasy.

That's because there are red flags left right and centre and actual peadophiles are making sex education policy for schools.
Exposing kids to link is now being pushed at pride / story time and in schools.

Everyone should be feeling uneasy anyone who doesn't shouldn't be around children.

Kink not link.

To put things in basic terms we're absolutely fucked and your children are being openly groomed by the government.

One of the comments on the piece in the Daily Mail:

"Sexual Offences Act 2003 section 8 - Causing or inciting a child under 13 to engage in sexual activity."

Surely that is exactly what this is?

They avoid using the word but in practice what they are doing is asking a classroom full of children, from age of 6yrs onwards, to masturbate in front of them and in front of each other.

Then they repeat this throughout the programme in each school year.

What the hell are they doing to these children?? No way is this for the benefit of the children - that's why there are laws against it.

Sarah Phillimore @spero - is this legal??

Oh! Just checked Twitter and notice that you have already been alerted to this:

twitter.com/Womens_Voices_/status/1176215764958896128

Apparently, the programme has been put together by a "sexologist" Jonny Hunt who is linked to The Kinsey Institute, pornographers, Miles Jackman, the obscenity lawyer who got extreme porn laws relaxed in the UK and that Dr. Christian (advocate of porn in the classroom and cosy chats with Dr Haddock about under-age sex).

Jonny Hunt's tasteful Twitter handle is "littlerubberhat" - his tweets are protected. I can't imagine why!

Here is his Twitter::
twitter.com/littlerubberhat

Website "Going Off the Rails" (apt!)
www.goingofftherails.co.uk

YouTube Channel (a grand total of 6 subscribers!)
www.youtube.com/channel/UC5iYUDJZAko-yB2zetiRNvw

Here is the "All About Me" programme - which has been running for 5 years in Warwickshire and in over 100 schools! He says it has just been updated to comply with new DfE Guidance.

www.goingofftherails.co.uk/allaboutme/

On a horrifyingly related matter, sex abuse in schools:

No Age of Consent for Sex in new DfE Statutory Guidance for "Keeping Children Safe in Schools"

twitter.com/SuspendDisbeli2/status/1176192853925666816

"New "Statutory guidance Keeping children safe in education" Sept 2019 covers sexual abuse, defines sexual offences as per Sexual Offences Act + explains consent but omits any mention of specific sexual offences against children as per act"
1/2

plus could not find any mention of age of consent. Gives impression that child of any age may consent to eg. oral, vaginal, anal penetration."
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/828587/Keeping_children_safe_in_education_part_one.pdf
The footnote for further info on consent links to
www.disrespectnobody.co.uk/consent/what-is-consent/

That last is written for adults!

(PART 1)

(PART 2)

That last is written for adults!

"Consent means giving permission for something to happen or agreeing to do something and being comfortable with that decision. It doesn’t matter what gender you are, or whether you’re straight, gay or bisexual, if you’re planning to do anything sexual then both of you must give consent.

Consent has to be given freely and no one can be made to consent to something. It’s not consent if someone does something because they feel like they have to. You can also never assume that someone is giving consent – you have to be sure.

Consent is an essential part of healthy relationships and it’s really important to know what it is and the many ways to spot it. Both you and the person you’re with always need to consent before sex or any intimate activity.

If you want to do something sexual with your partner, the responsibility lies with you to check for consent, not with your partner to say ‘no’ if they don’t want to."

No mention anywhere of Sexual Offences Against Children under the Act!

(PART 2)

(PART 3)

CPS

www.cps.gov.uk/sexual-offences

Child Sexual Abuse

"A child is defined as any person under the age of 18. Child sexual abuse involves forcing or inciting a child to take part in sexual activity, whether or not the child is aware of what is happening and not necessarily involving a high level of violence.

This may involve physical contact including rape or oral sex, or non-penetrative acts such as masturbation, kissing, rubbing and touching outside of clothing. They may also include non-contact activities, such as involving children in looking at, or in the production of, sexual images, watching sexual activities, encouraging children to behave in sexually inappropriate ways, or exploiting or grooming a child in preparation for abuse (including via the internet) or prostitution. Child sexual abuse can be committed by both men and women, or other children."

(PART 3)

(PART 4)

SEXUAL OFFENCES ACT 2003

Offences Against Children

The 2003 Act identifies three categories of offences against children of different age. They are:

Offences against those under 13;
Offences against those under 16;
Offences against those under 18.

Offences against children under 13 (sections 5 - 8)

Introduction

Sections 5-8 apply the main non-consensual offences to children under 13, except that consent in these offences is irrelevant. A child under 13 does not, under any circumstances, have the legal capacity to consent to any form of sexual activity.

The under-13 offences overlap to a very significant extent with the child sex offences (ss. 9 to 15 of the 2003 Act), which are designed to protect children under 16. However, the intention of Parliament is that anyone who engages in sexual activity with a child under 13 should be prosecuted with one of the offences specifically designed to protect such children. This is to ensure the availability of the higher maximum penalties for the under-13 offences.

During the passage of the Sexual Offences bill, Lord Falconer said:
"A fundamental justification for the under-13 offence is the age and vulnerability of the victim. We do not think it is right that where the victim is 12 or under question of consent should arise. There will be many cases where it would be utterly invidious for a 12 year old or under to have to give evidence in relation to consent."

These are offences of strict liability as to age. The prosecution has to prove only two facts. First, the intentional sexual activity and second the age of the complainant at the date of the sexual activity, e.g. a certified copy of a birth certificate together with evidence of identity.

(PART 4)

(PART 5)

Note: R v G [2008] UKHL 37; [2009] Offences of strict liability are compatible with A6.2 ECHR.

Section 5: Rape of a child under 13

Section 5 makes it an offence for a person intentionally to penetrate with his penis the vagina, anus or mouth of a child under 13.
In cases where a defendant admits sexual activity with a child under 13 but states that the victim consented, the proper course is to invite the court to hold a Newton hearing. On no account should a section 1 rape count be added as an alternative.

When dealing with a Newton hearing in such circumstances, prosecutors must comply with the Attorney General's Guidelines on the Acceptance of Pleas and the Prosecutor's Role in the Sentencing Exercise [2009]. See also Rape and Sexual Offences: Chapter 18 and Sentencing - Overview - Newton hearings

Section 6: Assault of a child under 13 by penetration

Section 6 makes it an offence for a person intentionally to penetrate sexually the vagina, or anus of a child under 13 with a part of his body, or with anything else.

A defendant indicted for assault of a child under 13 by penetration may, on appropriate facts, be acquitted of the offence charged and convicted in the alternative of the lesser offence of sexual assault.

Section 7: Sexual assault of a child under 13

Section 7 makes it an offence for a person to touch a child under 13 sexually.

Section 8: Causing or inciting a child under 13 to engage in sexual activity

Section 8 makes it an offence for a person intentionally to cause or incite a child (B) under the age of 13 to engage in sexual activity.

(PART 5)

(PART 6)

Key points

There is no defence of mistaken reasonable belief in age of the complainant.

It is a defence against aiding, abetting or counselling an offence (except section 8) if the purpose is to:

Protect the child from sexually transmitted infection
Protect the physical safety of the child
Protect the child from becoming pregnant
Promote the child's emotional well-being by the giving of advice unless the purpose is to obtain sexual gratification or to cause or encourage the relevant sexual act (section 73).

Section 8 covers the wide range of activity as in section 4, but also covers the situation where a person incites (encourages) the child to take part in the sexual activity, even if the activity itself does not take place.

Penalties

Sections 5 and 6 are indictable only and carry a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

Section 7 is triable either way and carries a maximum sentence of 14 years on indictment.

Section 8 is indictable only and carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment if the activity involves:

Penetration of (B's) anus or vagina;
Penetration of (B's) mouth with a person's penis;
Penetration of a person's anus or vagina by (B) or
Penetration of a person's mouth with (B's) penis.

Section 8 creates two separate offences because the maximum sentence differs depending on proving penetrative or non-penetrative activity R v Courtie[1984] AC 463.

In drafting charges and indictments, prosecutors should specify whether the sexual activity is either penetrative or non-penetrative sexual activity.

Non-penetrative activity is either way and carries a maximum sentence of 14 years on indictment.

In determining the level of sentence, the same degree of seriousness should apply whether a person 'causes' or 'incites' the activity.

(PART 6)

(PART 7)

Code for Crown Prosecutors - considerations

The 2003 Act protects all children from engaging in sexual activity at an early age, irrespective of whether or not a person under 13 may have the necessary understanding of sexual matters to give ostensible consent. The intention behind sections 5-8 is to provide maximum protection to very young children.

Code for Crown Prosecutors - Adult defendant

A prosecution will usually take place unless there are public interest factors tending against prosecution which outweigh those tending in favour. Given the seriousness of these offences, where the defendant is an adult, notwithstanding the wide nature of the activity in sections 5-8, a prosecution will normally be required.

-Code for Crown Prosecutors - Child defendant (under 18)_

See CPS Legal Guidance on Youth Offenders including sections on:

Principles guiding the decision to prosecute
Sexual Offences and Child Abuse by Young Offenders
Rape and other offences against children under 13 (sections 5 to 8 Sexual Offences Act 2003)
Child sex offences committed by children or young persons
Familial sexual offences committed by young people
See also Rape and Sexual Offences: Chapter 11.

The overriding public concern is to protect children. It was not Parliament's intention to punish children unnecessarily or for the criminal law to intervene where it is wholly inappropriate. During the passage of the bill, Lord Falconer said:

"Our overriding concern is to protect children, not to punish them unnecessarily. Where sexual relationships between minors are not abusive, prosecuting either or both children is highly unlikely to be in the public interest. Nor would it be in the best interests of the child ..."

(PART 7)

(PART 8)

There are two important points to note:

(1) The Directors Guidance on Charging (fourth edition: January 2011) states that offences under the Sexual Offences Act 2003 committed by or upon persons under the age of 18 years must always be referred to the CPS for a charging decision, whether admitted or not
(2) Youth Offender Specialists should review all files involving youth offenders and take all major decisions in relation to those cases, in particular, whether or not a prosecution should take place.
In addition:

Chief Crown Prosecutors must be notified of any case where at least one of the complainants and at least one of the suspects are under the age of 13. This includes cases which are diverted from prosecution, whether on evidential or public interest grounds.

All such cases must be reviewed by a prosecutor who is both a rape specialist and a youth specialist. All advocates conducting these cases must have a rape specialism and should also have a youth specialism.

Where a sexual offence committed by a child passes the evidential stage of the Full Code Test, it is essential that when considering the public interest, prosecutors have as much information as possible from sources including the police, Youth Offending Teams (YOTs), and any professionals assisting those agencies, about the defendants background and the circumstances surrounding the alleged offence, as well as any information known about the victim. Failure to do so may lead to judicial review of any decision R v Chief Constable of Kent ex parte L and R v DPP ex parte B [1991] 93 Cr App R 416.

Views expressed by the victim, and where appropriate the victim's family, should be taken into account in accordance with the Code.

(PART 8)