Across the red line: does identity politics cause more problems than it solves?

[absolutezero0k]

Just caught some of this in the car and looking forward to listening to the full programme on i player.

Across the Red Line - Series 4, Does identity politics cause more problems than it solves? - @bbcradio4 www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0008j7m

Maybe I should start teaching it in my bio classes..

Great posts bicker!

Maybe I should start teaching it in my bio classes..

I wandered past a school display the other day that had world religions and beliefs with various stories and noticed they'd included the Big Bang. Which is a new on on me. I guess flat earth probably also has a place now on the curriculum...

Bickering can you publish these posts somewhere please? Bitesized bickering in battle on identity politics. They're really helpful. I've copied to my R0 inspired collection of links for future cognitive dissonance wars.

Thanks, Warrior!

And we are in a world of hurt if postmodern relativism results in the equation of scientific theory to religious belief.

I continually find it odd that people who understand the binary of 1s and 0s, however arranged, deny the binary nature of Xs and Ys, however arranged.

I’ll see what I can pull together. Adolph Reed, in the US, long time civil rights activist, is very good on the differences in practice.

relativism results in the equation of scientific theory to religious belief.

I will be asking someone if that display is appropriate and correct next week!

I agree. Beautifully summarised Bickering.
Reed is great. When I first encountered identity politics as an entrenched problem and saw that it was incompatible with solidarity movements, Reed really helped confirm my fears.

Still laughing that the picture of an incel in a 'feminist t-shirt' is clear evidence that men can be feminists.

Oh my days. What a time to be alive.

Are you insinuating that fat men are incels? I can only imagine the outrage if somebody were to suggest on here that most feminists are fat.

I didn't mention that incel's size.

I assume all men who wear 'this is what a feminist looks like' is doing it to try and get laid because all other attempts have failed.

I think some men call themselves feminists because they have been told that if they support women, they ought to be feminists. Why make assumptions based on so little information.

I'd second the recommendation to read Reed, but it's been my experience that talking about his ideas gets you called a racist, unless you make it clear he's a black man - and sometimes even then.

• "I firmly believe that identity politics (a key tenet of 3rd wave feminism) is largely accountable for the whole TRA situation we're experiencing lately."

• "Gosh, MRAs blaming women for everything. Gosh we've never heard this before, like, ever."

Sorry but I agree with the first statement. There is absolutely no doubt that liberal feminism is strongly involved in pushing intersectionality and thus (gender) identity politics. Do you honestly disagree with that? This doesn't imply that men haven't subverted it and abuse it, but to pretend it isn't at fault at all is dangerous, as it ignored reality.

Bickerin

Thank you, that makes a lot of sense.

Bicker, Adolphus Reed sounds interesting. Are there any works of his you would particularly recommend?

Also, thank you OP for introducing me to Across the Red Line. It's a fascinating programme.

In any case, I don't think anyone says that feminism or even 3rd wave feminism caused identity politics. It's more that 3rd wave feminism in many ways was formed out of the identity politics perspective.

Quite.

I just notice a lot of similar tactics employed by the TRAs that I recognise from watching social justice types try and disrupt/no platform opposing speakers - often the alt right.

I don't identify with either side tbh, but the whole ' reporting you to your employer' tactic, fir example,"was frequently used by feminists and the left ('SJWs' etc) long before it was picked up by TRAs.