Sonia Poulton on Sky news this morning with Benjamin Butterworth

[happydappy2]

Anyone else seen this-sorry can’t link to the clip but Sonia was fantastic. Articulated incredibly clearly that it’s a dangerous lie to tell children they are born in the wrong body, and that accepting people does not mean encouraging them to take puberty blockers and have surgery. Benjamin (unsurprisingly) didn’t really have much of a counter argument other than whimpering ‘are you saying trans people don’t exist?’

Benjamin "I'll identify as black in order to take up a BAME place at a conference" Butterworth?

That guy?

Here you go

I thought BB started of quite sensibly, talking about how gendered expectations are heaped onto biological sex.

So how on earth did he jump from that to “born in the wrong body”?

Popchyk Yes, that guy.
Here's a link to the clip. mobile.twitter.com/SoniaPoulton/status/1174266641871511558

‘are you saying trans people don’t exist?’

It always boils down to this: dont exist / invalidate.

It is high time people stopped falling for such hyperbolic lies.

Thanks pencils

Born in the wrong body. Says. Bb. Sonia. NO

nobody is born in the wrong body

Sonia was great on this

I liked that she said she had all the evidence on this and it’s really dangerous to tell kids they were born in the wrong body

She really shot down all his cliches

‘are you saying trans people don’t exist?’

Trans people obviously exist, in the sense that people exist who say they are trans. But nobody is actually 'trans' in the sense that they were literally born in the wrong body, so in that sense, trans people don't exist.

Thanks for posting I only caught the end of it, now I'll catch up with the whole thing.

Well said Sonia.

No, no one is born in the wrong body. No, no one has a 'gender assigned at birth'.

Benjamin Butterworth is a dangerous man espousing a dangerous ideology.

Sonia was excellent - I'm becoming a massive fan of hers!

This "born in the wrong body" thing has to be countered.

~Heather Brunskell Evans is also excellent on this.

We really need to get rid of the idea that people have a 'gender identity'.

Without the idea of a gender identity, which is something that nobody can actually define, genderism falls apart.

Sonia was amazing. So clear and factual.

It was great to hear the challenge to 'born in the wrong body' so clearly on TV.

I think the accusation of saying trans people don't exist is drawing on the classic transexual idea. So, to people who still think in those terms they hear that people are saying that there are no people who suffered from serious dysphoria, went through some medical process of transition, and lived as the other sex, socially and legally.

In those terms it seems like a silly thing to deny. I know a person who has lived for 40 years now in that way, almost as long as I have been alive, and has been quite a stable person who seems to have lived quite happily and as a contributing and well loved community member. To say that doesn't exist seems both false and peevish.

Of course the people who say this are implying a lot more when they say "trans person" and that is the problem, it is the a lot more, the specifics, how it is defined medically and in terms of language, that is disputed.

Agree Sonia was great and so good to hear the ‘born in the wrong body’ nonsense rejected. A small number of trans people have gender dysphoria. (Certainly not all). An even smaller number will have surgery to try to treat that dysphoria. Long term studies do not show any improvement in mental health after physical transition. Some show increase in suicide rates. So there simply isn’t enough evidence to say that people are born in wrong body and changing some of their external appearance is curative or even helpful. Yet this is being promoted by various organisations to children and other vulnerable young people as a way to make them feel better about themselves. It’s easy to see why so many people detransition once they realise it doesn’t change how they feel inside
It is dangerous for this idea of born in the wrong body to be endlessly repeated when there is so little to back it up and so much harm can result from it

Sonia was really excellent on this.

Would have thought Sky would have done their research before having Butterworth on, never forget what he did at LSE (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3209406-this-is-just-i-have-no-words). Have never seen a mea culpa or apology from him for it either

When they say, "Are you saying that trans people don't exist?" I don't think they are pulling a fast one by trying to suggest that someone is denying that transsexuals exist.

I think that the subtext is, "Are you saying that "transgender" is a made up thing and these people are just mentally ill?"

They know that that is precisely what the vast majority of people think but most people are too polite or afraid to say it, certainly not a TV pundit.

So what we get instead is a lot of beating around the bush that goes over most people's heads and serves to give the impression that these clever people on TV think that "transgender" is a "real thing", even if it means that you can't be born in the wrong body.

I am not criticising Sonia, BTW. This is a really hard message to get across without being completely blunt and then being pilloried for being "transphobic".

In those terms it seems like a silly thing to deny.

She said "no one is born in the wrong body". This is a perfectly valid viewpoint, however certain individuals may choose to manage the psychological condition of dysphoria with their sexed body.