Women’s unpaid labour

[CatalogueUniverse]

I’m still trying to put this together in a more coherent way but would appreciate thoughts on women’s unpaid labour.

School volunteering - trips/reading etc
Caring for relatives/neighbours
Brownies/Guides other community volunteering

I’m vaguely wondering how much of the crisis in healthcare/elderly care/school funding is driven by women who are now unavailable due to paid work.

I wondered what would happen if we all simply stopped doing it, and then I remembered the quote about Feminism, something like “we forgot about the children”. It’s a terrifyingly accurate example of how it is vastly different making a stand when you are the only one impacted to taking a position where someone vulnerable will be affected. How much of women’s responsibilities are forced upon them because men unconsciously or conspicuously know that women will not allow someone to suffer?

They did it in Iceland years ago - just stopped doing it for a day en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Icelandic_women%27s_strike

That's fascinating about the strike in Iceland. When I read it I started thinking how great it would be to do it in the uk. The first thought I had was 'I'd have to arrange for dd's dad to have her for the day' . I wonder how much pre arranging women had to do for their 'day off'.

The original post is correct about children you simply can't just not care for them without making other arrangements- they'd die /get injured (well when they're young anyway).

I'm not sure what point I'm making it's just that you do become incredibly vulnerable after you have a child.

Even the fact that women have to arrange not to be present rankles. How often do the vast majority of men need to arrange cover for caring responsibilities?

Meh. It’s all a choice. I’ve never conformed to gender stereotypes so do not do the bulk of unpaid labor or child caring stuff. DH and I both do our fair share.
Yes, there are social consequences of being looked down as a a “bad” mom or for my DH a “bad” provider. But we just ignored it.

Its not a choice if you are a single parent.

All of the “jobs” you mentioned are by choice though, aren’t they?

There can be a strong element of coercion about social pressure including the fact there is no one else to do it, so I don't think that caring for relatives would always be a choice.

"All of the “jobs” you mentioned are by choice though, aren’t they?"
Choices are not made in a vacuum though, are they? Choices are made in context and against a background. If the background is that women have been groomed from birth to expect to do those jobs, if it really a free choice? And if the context is that those groomed women know something MUST be done and that the males available WILL NOT do it, are they making a free choice by stepping into the breach?

The ide that women are choosing is one that's been used against us forever. 'Oh, but women choose to care for children/parents/be paid less' they mewl.

Fuck. That. Shit.

I'm a deciding manager for home care for the elderly. I can 100% confirm that women working outside the home is driving huge pressure on the health services. There is no expectation of same on men.

Case in point, if a elderly lady has advanced dementia, it would be expected that her daughter or even daughter in law would provide personal care...and there is a lot of tutting from the powers that be if that daughter is not around to do same due to work. It would never ever be expected of the sons, even if they farm/work from home etc.

And I could accept that... If the sons were then expected to care for elderly gents but again it's seen as a female only role. You couldn't possibly ask the boys to do it.

It's a sad truth that people with only sons will access home care or even long term care quicker and easier as there is no real expectation that the sons would take on the burden of personal care.

It is something I actively work against and senior mgmt have told me to let go on numerous occasions.

Likewise meals on wheels and other such associated volunteer services are falling apart from the lack of female volunteers as women are working more. Again this is tutted upon but no drive to encourage men to sign up as they are assumed to be busy with...wait for it...work.

I stand by opinion so I won’t argue with you about it. Moreover, “groomed” is a very emotive word- not sure why you selected such a word but ok.

The fact that a choice is not a free choice is no excuse because no choice is ever a free choice. It’s an unrealistic standard to expect any choice to be a free choice. Men don’t have free choice to do these things or other socially “male” things either. No one has free choice, it’s a utopian illusion.

Yes, women are socialized towards all these care type things. But so what? Are you an individual or a lemming? And yes, going against the crowd, the flow, against society’s expectations will certainly result in pressure, shaming and censure. But, again, is that really enough of an excuse? I have never thought so.

@Inebriati
“Its not a choice if you are a single parent.”

Sure it is a choice. At some point, you have chosen to be a single parent. Therefore you have chosen to take on those child care duties. Even a widow/widower is choosing to not put their kid(s) in the care system, or to not leave their kid(s) with grandparents or to not remarry.

In addition, at any time, you can still choose to give your kid(s) up to the care system or other relatives to raise.

Not saying those are pleasant things but they are bona fide choices.

*The fact that a choice is not a free choice is no excuse because no choice is ever a free choice. It’s an unrealistic standard to expect any choice to be a free choice. Men don’t have free choice to do these things or other socially “male” things either. No one has free choice, it’s a utopian illusion.

Yes, women are socialized towards all these care type things. But so what? Are you an individual or a lemming? And yes, going against the crowd, the flow, against society’s expectations will certainly result in pressure, shaming and censure. But, again, is that really enough of an excuse? I have never thought so.*

Every single word of this !

When it comes to volunteering at least once per month, it is actually pretty even in the U.K.:
23% of women and 21% of men

So, that kind of blows the whole help help I’m being oppressed because women do all the volunteering/unpaid work in communities argument.

Doesn't it depend on how you look at things though? Surely the point is that all the things OP mentioned are good things to do in themselves. Bringing up children, caring for elderly relatives and community volunteering are in themselves good things to do. The point is that we do not value them as we value other work, especially men's paid work so they become devalued. A colleague of mine is looking at the value for money benefit of childcare. If you just look at whether increasing numbers of parents, mostly women, enter the labour market the gain is not huge. But if you look at the things women do when they have child care like caring for elderly relatives and volunteering, and then cost that, the gains are much higher. We need to value unpaid work, the majority of which women do (I know not all) and factor that in to eg economic analysis.

@Cleopatrai
“Moreover, “groomed” is a very emotive word- not sure why you selected such a word but ok.”

Yes! Thought the same thing. My eyebrow went 🧐 and I was, oh here it goes, the infantilization of women. We are “groomed” like poor, helpless children who cannot possibly have independent thought or agency.

Health and social care is getting costlier because of the ageing population, new treatments etc.

Education issues are due to low investment per head over many, many years.

The number of people who went into school to hear children read was tiny - because practically every parent worked. There were only a handful of us for the whole time my children were there - and we did all of the volunteer jobs - pta, governors, readers, ran the library. 2 men helped with sports coaching and swimming as no male teachers. So I'd hardly say women are forced into those roles.

Yes, guiding is fun by women volunteers but then scouts have male leaders and cadet forces such as air and army cadets have a lot of male volunteers running them.

As for meals on wheels, I think we should be ashamed as a country that that relies on volunteers to run it.

People have choices. I think it's wrong to blame men because they choose not to do these things. Women are just as able to refuse to do them but choose not to. That's up to them but they need to own that choice.

A man going to a voluntary board meeting for 2 hours once a month (conveniently avoiding bedtime) is very different from the women doing daily/ weekly drudge work volunteering.

Men do it for their cv.

Women do it out of a sense of social responsibility

A man going to a voluntary board meeting for 2 hours once a month (conveniently avoiding bedtime) is very different from the women doing daily/ weekly drudge work volunteering.

What's the voluntary board meeting for?

I'm talking about running youth groups 2 evenings a week plus weekend camping trips looking after other people's children. Much the same as guides.

The normal things women do to keep society running smoothly are not valued by men. when these roles are paid for they are not valued or highly paid until men start to do them and then the pay goes up.

Just not doing them won't create the kind of society we want. We aren't talking about opting out altogether, OP was talking about the logistics of a one day strike.

The comments have been interesting but aren't a feminist analysis. Women are socialised to do free care work and men are socialised to not to. Its not innate.
Its a situation created by a mass delusion.

@Mamello
I agree with much of what you say regarding the importance or value society places on paid versus unpaid work. I don’t agree that unpaid work should be included in economic analysis, eg. GDP, GNI etc as that is a politically motivated idea which will result in scientifically inaccurate measurements.

But that was not really the OPs point at all. First, she thinks the crisis in healthcare, elder care and school funding is due to women working paid jobs...Er no.its the exact opposite..the crisis would be WORSE if women were economically inactive because then the tax revenues that pay for these things would be lower.

Actually I didn’t say that’s what I thought. I specifically said I was wondering if it was related.

Care for the elderly - what has changed? It’s not just people living longer. 20 years ago how many elderly people had multiple daily carers or were in residential care compared to now? How many women/retired men who were at home ran errands for neighbours/relatives did housekeeping or care casks? What changed?

Loads of people used to retire in their 50s and were doing all sorts of community roles. Who retires in their 50s now?

So we have more people working for more years. Less unpaid work going on plugging gaps in services. Presumably all the extra work going on should be generating tax then to pay for the gaps in services?

Breastfeeding peer support is a case in point.

Vulnerable postpartum women and new babies? Clearly a case for unpaid female volunteers, many of whom are also juggling young babies and toddlers.

DrAllcome yes you're right that the OP was making a slightly different point, I was responding more to some of the comments. However I do think unpaid work should be included in some economic analysis. That is because if it was not done unpaid but needed to be done, it would be at a cost to society eg the cost of caring for elderly people has suddenly hit us because families don't provide it free anymore. So the unpaid work has an economic value.