How to make policy: hide it in other policy. Layla moran and the lib dems at conference

[Anlaf]

lib dem conference voting this morning on equal marriage - Layla Moran proposing motion on equal marriage, particularly in NI and movingly mentioning testimony of the journalist Lyra Mckee, killed this year. Also to cover strengthening rights of cohabiting couples and for anyone awake enough to notice:

Remove the spousal veto
Obstacles still exist preventing equal marriage in England and Wales, including the spousal veto which allows the married spouse of a trans person to veto their spouse's full legal gender recognition and hands a person's ability to self-identify to their partner, who may not have their best intentions at heart.

www.libdems.org.uk/f9-equal-marriage

I have no doubt the spousal veto (which I would rather describe as the partner of a person transitioning being able request an end to the marriage, rather than become married to someone of the same (or in a gay couple, opposite) legal sex) is worthy of political debate.

Surely worth more attention than hiding it in a bullet point towards the bottom of a motion on another topic?

www.libdems.org.uk/autumn-18-f6-establishing-real-freedom-of-choice

'Improve the overall situation for women in Northern Ireland. As this is a devolved issue, this motion does not call for specific measures, but indicates that Northern Ireland should not be left behind. It encourages the UK government to take action to achieve the same results within the province itself to those called for in the motion.'

Vs

'The UK government to address the existing human rights violation and introduce equal marriage legislation to Northern Ireland as an immediate priority.The UK government to extend existing legislation in England and Wales to include equal marriage, removing the discriminatory spousal veto.'

Hmmmmmmm

Unreasonable behaviour can be anything! My friend had PND. Her husband was able to cite her depression as unreasonable behaviour in their divorce. As PP said, within the context of a heterosexual marriage, deciding you are a different gender and sexuality can be unreasonable, even if, of and in itself, such behaviour is not unreasonable (any more than suffering depression is, or working long hours or excessively snoring is not of and in itself unreasonable). The effect on the other person is the thing that is unreasonable.

However, this disproportionately powerful and seemingly well funded lobby will not countenance any slurs or deviations from the "brave, stunning, being your true self, anyone who disagrees is a transphobe" narrative. That's why I worry that, once the veto is gone, they will not stop there and will try to bend the law once again in their favour, probably through test cases/common law, as this one will be hard to legislate via statute. This will have nothing to do with the practicalities of divorce, but everything to do with control and validation. In a world where people actually believe that you change your biological sex simply by belief, and intelligent people in power are either buying this or ignoring reality and bending the rules to make it a reality, I doubt they will have any hesitation at all throwing a few more biological women under the bus.

Sorry

First quote is their position on abortion

Second relates thi the gay marriage / spousal veto thing

A GC lawyer contact has kindly agreed to try and find out the answer to my query about the spousal veto and spousal support ) she didn't know the answer either).

That's great Tinsel.

Legal opinion is in, that under s23 MCA 1973 there is provision for a a claim for financial relief on a decree of nullity.

So you now all have my permission to campaign for the retention of the spousal veto.

Although I also stick to my opinion based on my own experience and on the definition of unreasonable behaviour, that a divorce petition on that basis would also still succeed.

we need to consider very carefully the unintended consequences of making medical decisions grounds for automatic annulment or divorce, lest the breast cancer survivor finds herself divorced or her marriage annulled because her husband wants a wife with breasts. (After reading the comments BTL when Angelina Jolie had a preventative double mastectomy, I have no doubt that some men would do that.)

Reading this has made me very very very sad.

Just read this and it's starting to sink in what a shitty move this was from the Lib Dems.

I wonder to what extent the woman who argued for other women's rights being given away, did so if her own free will?

www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/09/liberal-democrats-decide-remove-controversial-trans-spousal-veto

The repetition of 'it wasn't my choice' is stark, isn't it?

I suspect whatever chance they had to get voted in has disappeared given the 'I'm going to revoke Article 50 if I get in' announcement. So they can push for anything they like, and lose voters.

I'm getting more and more cross as this sinks in. Apologies for not getting angry sooner, but I needed to clarify the point about finances first.

I wonder to what extent the woman who argued for other women's rights being given away, did so if her own free will?

All she is quoted as saying is how little choice she had and how their children would have lost one of their parents to suicide if she didn't give her consent. Even after hearing this, Layla Moran still thinks that changing your identity has no effect on anyone else.

Layla Moran MP said: “You shouldn’t be defined by anyone else other than you. That’s what makes the spousal veto such an injustice. The fact is your identity has nothing to do with anything else. No spouse should be able to veto who you are.”

Once again the threat of suicide is there if others don't comply with the demands of the transitioner. But the trans lobby suggest that if it is the non-transitioning person who becomes suicidal, this should be viewed as emotional abuse.

A quarter of respondents stated that their partner or ex-partner had threatened or attempted suicide or self-harm as a way to make them do, or stop them doing something. Receiving such threats from a partner or ex-partner can generate intense feelings of guilt and concern for the wellbeing of the partner or ex-partner particularly since suicidal thoughts, threats and actions are strongly associated with mental illness, severe emotional distress, and vulnerability. As a result of these associations, it can be difficult for a person experiencing domestic abuse to identify their partner or ex-partner as holding abusive power over them. They may instead feel obliged to fulfil a care-giving role towards the threatening partner or ex-partner.
www.scottishtrans.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/trans_domestic_abuse.pdf

Fucking hell that makes me feel sick. There is no end to the appropriation.

I'm particularly annoyed by Helen Belcher and wife trotting our the claim that the spousal veto can be used by controlling trans widows to hurt the transitioning partner.

I've never seen any evidence of this.

Somebody on twitter has suggested an FOI. I could direct an FOI to the gender recognition panel but can't think how it would highlight this particular issue?

I suppose I could ask how many interim certificates had been issued to people who are still married.

'Layla Moran MP said: “You shouldn’t be defined by anyone else other than you. That’s what makes the spousal veto such an injustice. The fact is your identity has nothing to do with anything else. No spouse should be able to veto who you are.”'

Is sexuality not a part of our identities now then?

Lol at if one party threatens self harm they must be given everything they want, if the other one does they are an abusive cunt.

It's all so transparent isn't it.

"It wasn’t my choice and I knew this had to happen, that a second female parent was way better for our kids than a dead male parent."

Better a living daughter than a dead son.

Absolutely disgusting and abusive manipulation. The weaponizing of suicide by these people is so revolting.

"I was supporting my other half, while trying to hold myself and our family together, but it wasn’t my choice."

No Joanna, we know it wasn't. You and your children are the ones who have been abused here, not your "wife" (who I'm prepared to pay money did not pick up half the burden of supporting and holding their family together when they became "a second female parent"). Nope, I'm prepared to bet that they carried on letting you do all the emotional, mental, and actual family labour, while they behaved exactly as they always had but this time with more nail polish.

Wake the fuck up women. Wake the fuck up lib dems.

Also, that comparison of their position on marriage equality vs abortion in NI is very very telling. Add that to Swinson's promise to rehouse all prisoners according to their magic gender feelings (which by current estimates would result in a 1:3 dick to fanny ratio in the female estate) and you couldn't pay me to vote for this dumpster fire of a party. And Swinson calls herself a feminist? She's a disgrace.

womansplaceuk.org/2019/09/21/spousal-consent-and-the-liberal-democrats/

Great to see Woman's Place speaking out about this

womansplaceuk.org/2019/09/21/spousal-consent-and-the-liberal-democrats/

Great to see Woman's Place speaking out about this