Margaret Atwood defends women's right to work in strip clubs because she thinks it's 'empowering'

[stumbledin]

Speaking to Emma Barnett on BBC Radio 5 Live's Headliners, the 79-year-old said women who work in strip clubs can 'feel in control of the room' and earn more money than coffee shop staff.

Ms Atwood, whose new book The Testaments was published this week, told BBC Five Live that people protesting against the clubs should 'put their energy somewhere else that's really really important – like with environmental protests.'

The author said it was important to ensure women were not exploited, adding: 'Some of the most empowering women in the American West were the madams who were running the brothels because in that era they were saving up the money up for the girls, they were setting them up after they made that money they were taking care of them and it was much better than having a pimp.'

Ms Atwood also spoke out about different kinds of feminism, adding: 'I don't refuse the label of feminism, I say, 'which kind are you talking about?'

'I am the kind that endorses organisations like Equality Now. I am not the kind that says things like all men should be pushed off a cliff or all that all male babies should be killed at birth.'

(This is the Daily Mail so not sure if accurate transcript. Did anyone listen to the interview?)

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7457063/Margaret-Atwood-defends-womens-right-work-strip-clubs.html

And so sad that two women who in terms of their writing would obviously research and think things through chose to just take an off the self charactature (spelling?!) of feminism.

Right? It's like those disclaimers they put at the beginning of a book or movie: "Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is entirely coincidental." or " the content does not represent the views of...". So, in effect, these 'feminist' novelists are basically saying "Yes, I'm writing this and putting these words and thoughts in the heads and mouths of my characters but just because I'm writing about undesirables feminists doesn"t mean I actually am one - I luurves me the menz."

And it's 'caricature' btw.

Crayola feminism 😂
I couldn’t be bothered to wade through it all either, I stopped at fake feminists. Seems everyone can self id and fake being a woman but fake feminists need to be called out 😂

Sorry, Pankhurst, but the inadvertent irony of this made me giggle. If it's any consolation, just before I submitted my PhD thesis I had to do a find and replace for "pubic" / "public" as I constantly kept mistyping the latter.

Apologies for lowering the tone. As you were . . .

Lol, At least it made you laugh.

It’s a tone-deaf statement at best

Indeed it is.

Stumblein I think you are absolutely right when you say this the "feminist box" is the one that the media has created. The media are forever assigning feminists one behaviour/ thought process after another. It leaves little room for the differences of opinion in feminism or for the fact that liberal feminism is largely based around not appearing too critical of patriarchy just in case feminsts are thought of as 'mean' - a similar reason as to why many women denounce it.

I didn't really consider that second form of 'feminism' (inverted commas because it isn't any form of feminism I believe in) - the man hating kind - there is no feminism I am aware of which thinks "all male babies should be killed at birth". I think it is interesting and indicative of the negative PR job which is done on feminism that anyone should think that is feminist and that people say things like that - as if they wish (again) to distance themselves as far as possible from anything which overly criticises the patriarchy. Because if they did they would attract the same kind of backlash and viciousness that people like Germaine Greer and Julie Bindel receive.

WWBD?

Gotta be sceptical of “everyone in X work loooooves it!”

I enjoy my job and am treated well. And yet. I know at the junior levels, people can be overworked to the point of illness.

My sister is a doctor - female colleagues of hers have faced sexual harassment.

If anyone claimed to speak on behalf of our entire professions, and said “Everyone looooves it! Empowerment woo hoo! No issues here!!”

I’d be

And I’d wonder what their agenda was.

(End of derail - well done to everyone steering clear) ✌️

I’m always amazed at how many people with controversial opinions always seem to have two degrees

Two degrees and bouncy boobs

If anyone claimed to speak on behalf of our entire professions, and said “Everyone looooves it! Empowerment woo hoo! No issues here!!”

All together now in the Lego Movie song! 'Everything is awesome! Everything is cool when you're part of a team!'

"'The first time I was in a strip club ......'

Clearly didn’t prevent you from returning."

I'm not sure what your point is, please explain. Which one of these did you make the leap of assuming I was:

a customer
a stripper
a bartender
an alcohol sales rep
a bouncer
other
?

Re: Old West America and brothel madams in the wild west.

The book "Upstairs Girls: Prostitution in the American West" by Michael Rutter details the historic truth, and it is very, very much not how the enormously wealthy Atwood fantasizes it is.

from a review:

"A veteran writer with some three dozen books to his credit, Rutter pulls no punches as he explores the role of prostitution in the West, why women became hookers, what their lives were like, and hazards of the occupation including disease, violence, pregnancy and addiction. He also examines the notorious Chinese sex trade, in which the youngest of girls were sold into a life of slavery then discarded like a worn bedspread when they no longer generated profit for their masters.

Rutter is at his best when he provides profiles of individual prostitutes and the few who actually left their profession with a bankroll capable of funding a new life, far from the watered-down whiskey, glassy eyes and sagging mattresses associated with upstairs girls.

The author also touches on numerous Colorado, Wyoming, Montana and South Dakota boomtowns and brothels that attracted droves of soiled doves and dancehall girls – places like Deadwood and Lead.

From Big Butt Annie and Raunchy Rachel to Big Nose Kate and Nellie the Pig, Rutter provides a less-than-titillating but highly readable account of the “working girls” who rarely ruled the West and more often, simply served those who did."

Jesus are you smoking those crayolas?!

I ask again ... why are you denying this happens to lots of other women? It's ignorant and offensive.

But you're obviously hotter and much more clever than me so I'll bow out now

The projection from Atwood is astounding. Feminists do not murder men. Feminists do not want to murder men. But men murder women - quite a lot. Feminists do not want to kill baby boys. But men kill baby girls, so much so the there’s millions of missing girls worldwide.

As for Courtney, I’m highly amused at the idea of her in an exclusive club earning hundreds a night, playing children’s party games with polite respectful gentlemen willing to pay thousands for the privilege, and having her peace disturbed by nasty, fat, middle aged feminists yelling abuse.

Are you calling me fat, Wee?!

I heard the interview and yes the article is accurate. Well done the Mail. Doubt the Guardian will have bothered. Atwood really riled me with her ignorance and lazy stereotypes of happy strippers and hate-filled feminists.

The projection from Atwood is astounding. Feminists do not murder men. Feminists do not want to murder men. But men murder women - quite a lot. Feminists do not want to kill baby boys. But men kill baby girls, so much so the there’s millions of missing girls worldwide.

Yes, WeeBisom. And even more astounding when you recall that one of the experiences that got her started on imagining the world of Gilead was a visit to Afghanistan where she saw women in chadors. She once said that there's nothing in The Handmaid's Tale that wasn't actually happening to women, somewhere in the world, at the time she wrote it. And yet now she comes out with that quite extraordinary piece of DARVO-by-proxy.

I actually find that even more worrying than her promulgation of the happy hooker myth.

sadly we don't have saggy tits. Sorry if you do.

I don't no, and mine are actually real.

Because I'm 5ft 4.

@Courtney555 you've shrunk, you used to be 5ft5".

Here's the "ask me anything" from a retired lap dancer. And bugger me. Repeats almost word for word what I've said

Then another two dancers pop up to share that yes, this is their experience too. Wondering if they've crossed paths over their careers. The bond between the girls. What a great time they had Christ. This is looking like the common experience. Fuck. We can't allow that now can we!!

Don't panic though... here come all the "feminists" calling the three of them liars, so desperate for it not to be the case they even start up with "I think this is obviously fake, OP is a man with strip club fantasies" and trying to report the OP. MNHQ then tell them she's not a fake anything. Ohhhhhhhhhhh the "feminists" can't bear it

You can't make this shit up. Well. The darling "feminists" can if it doesn't suit their views.

Literally word for word my vet example above on PP

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3288751-retired-lap-dancer-ask-me-anything?pg=32

And whoever this woman is defending our right to work wherever we want. To be proud of what we do. About fucking time someone did instead of the bullshit "women can only do what they like, as long as it fits my views and I agree with it" fake feminism we've put up with for so long.

Thanks to the private messages too. Interesting questions and thanks for the support that sadly even with the anonymity of tinterweb, you feel so bullied by these peoples unfounded views, you only feel comfortable expressing support in private. I will answer every one of you x

Ooh, did she explain money laundering to all of us saggy titted, middle aged harridans?

But you're obviously hotter and much more clever than me so I'll bow out now

Hot and rich. The whole sex industry is predicated on having us believe that it is all about hot women making tons of money. It isn't.

Thanks to the private messages too. Interesting questions and thanks for the support that sadly even with the anonymity of tinterweb, you feel so bullied by these peoples unfounded views, you only feel comfortable expressing support in private. I will answer every one of you

Cool story bro

Actually I used the phrase money laundering/tax evasion.

Because most people that generally don't have a clue think the two are the same.

And seeing as this thread is populated predominantly by that level of understanding, I assumed a level of ignorance about everything, and spoke to the level the audience indicated they were working at.

Should have realised they do understand tax evasion and money laundering being different is a concept they can get their heads round, it's just lap dancing they like to be beautifully ignorant about. To every single dancer. On both threads. Girl power!!!!!

Oh, another slew of supportive, unsubstantiated PMs. Never seen that ploy on here before.