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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Suicide rates of trans kids is a ‘national scandal’, says charity Mermaids

50 replies

Doyoumind · 10/09/2019 14:36

I can't even bring myself to comment.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/09/10/world-suicide-prevention-day-mermaids-trans-kids-gender-recognition-act

OP posts:
ThePurported · 10/09/2019 18:36

The continued existence of Mermaids is a scandal.

"They also want it to be a legal requirement for the NHS, particularly GIDS – the gender identity clinic for under-18’s in London – to adopt an affirmative approach to healthcare for trans kids."

Meanwhile in the real world:
"England's only NHS youth gender clinic lowered the age at which it offers children puberty blockers, partly based on a study now being investigated.
The study's full findings have not been published - but early data showed some taking the drugs reported an increase in thoughts of suicide and self-harm."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49036145

zen1 · 10/09/2019 18:51

I saw Mermaids had recruited Jake Edwards as their social media creator. Presumably they are hoping that all Jake’s YouTube subscribers and Twitter followers will be drawn in to their cult.

stealthsquirrelnutkin · 10/09/2019 19:55

I'd be interested to know the impact of Mermaids et al telling children that an integral part of their trans identity is suicidal ideation.

From what we have seen of the behaviour of some of the most influential Mermaids policy pushers it seems plausible that they consider spreading lies about the suicides of children to be a win win situation.

Spreading those lies has stood them in good stead so far. They get away with it because they have the support of the captured media, and because the Samaritans have so far lacked the courage to speak out publicly against them. So ordinary people accept what they are told by a "respectable" children's charity and open their hearts and wallets.

We all know they have been made aware of the Samaritans guidelines, repeatedly. We also know that they have, repeatedly, chosen do the exact opposite of those very clear recommendations. So we can all agree that they are, knowingly, increasing the risk of suicide in the very children they claim to care about.

I'm sure they'll deny it, but it seems obvious to me that they have, on some level, decided that any children who take their information to heart and kill themselves are acceptable collateral damage.

I'm nor saying they are purposefully working towards gaining a few child martyrs for the cause, but an increase in child suicides would serve to bolster their dodgy statistics.

Somewhere along the line their policy makers have decided that the risk to benefit ratio is acceptable.

Personally I consider any charity willing to gamble with the lives of the children they are paid to protect to be dangerous and unfit.

Backintheclosit123 · 10/09/2019 20:42

This makes me so angry. I recall recently there was a coroners report released a few months ago concerning a 2016 (I think) suicide of a late teen transman. This person has MH issues. They got their blockers (or was it testosterone?) from doctor bloody Webberly, online.
My point is the coroners report speculated on whether not having easier access to these drugs was a reason for their suicide, rather than focusing their MH issues.
So this shit being peddled is believed and taken on board. It's a fucken disgrace.

Backintheclosit123 · 10/09/2019 20:48

OK my bad re previous post. Maybe a delay in being seen didn't help this young person.
But it still reads as a narrative to fit, rather than Jaydens mental health.
www.google.com/amp/s/www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/transgender-teen-resorted-online-treatments-16046382.amp

OldCrone · 10/09/2019 21:17

Maybe a delay in being seen didn't help this young person.

The problem is that these children and young people need mental health support. If they were referred to CAMHS instead of GIDS, wouldn't they get help sooner? (The current GIDS waiting time is about 2 years.) It's the insistence that if someone (even a child) says they're trans then they are trans and that is the only thing that's explored, rather than getting them mental health support to explore what is at the root of their problems.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 10/09/2019 21:20

Their lies and deep roots are a national scandal.

AlwaysTawnyOwl · 10/09/2019 21:36

A comprehensive study of all people who had sex reassignment surgery in Sweden over a 30 year period (Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden) showed that the suicide rates for people who had had SRS were much higher AFTER transition - here’s the conclusion:-

“Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group”

Birdsfoottrefoil · 10/09/2019 22:29

Always conclusion are just the authors opinion/interpretation of the data. TRAs say that the author says that that study shows suicides are caused by society not treating them well enough: ‘Should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic aftercare’. The data doesn’t show that, the data shows that SRS is correlated with higher suicide rates. This could just as well be because of the SRS.

I am also confused why anyone without a mental illness (as we keep being told) would need psychiatric care.

OldCrone · 10/09/2019 22:36

I am also confused why anyone without a mental illness (as we keep being told) would need psychiatric care.

Also why anyone without an illness (mental or physical) needs medical treatment like hormones and surgery.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 10/09/2019 22:42

It supports their beliefs and actions.

LangCleg · 10/09/2019 22:52

Authorities really need to step in and start censuring all orgs and media that don't abide by Samaritans suicide reporting standards. Orgs that don't abide by these standards should not receive public money.

Backintheclosit123 · 10/09/2019 22:56

Here is another totally irresponsible media article about another tragic case.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/01/transgender-teenager-killed-himself-after-school-refused-name-change

Most mainstream media reported it this way, but most did not report the following retraction which more clearly showed the complexity of this poor kids suicide.

www.gaytimes.co.uk/community/85444/school-responds-reports-refusing-refer-trans-boy-new-name/?noapp=true

Talk about an agenda.

hoodathunkit · 18/09/2019 10:49

We have conflicting narratives here, all about evil adults abusing children.

On the one hand Mermaids make apparently unsubstantiated claims about trans kids attempting suicide and harming themselves. In these narratives it is the evil Clinical Commissioning Groups who are responsible for withholding essential treatments and thus for the alleged suicides.

On the other, skeptical readers like myself are concerned that Mermaid’s activities constitute child abuse.

Some provisional thoughts re this:

In my personal experience there are many young people including minors with serious mental health problems who are desperate to escape the tormented world they inhabit. Many self-harm and some will attempt suicide.

Mermaids and other organisations dangle the promise of transition as a magical transformational experience. The hope of many of these extremely vulnerable young people is that hormones and surgery will fix everything. We know from the many and various de-transition narratives available on the net that sometimes the hormones and surgery make things much worse without helping the original mental health problems.

I have met some people who felt happier immediately following transition however the transition process involves a person joining a new “trans family”, a network, or overlapping networks of people connected in real life and via social media, where their new self and identity is validated by those in the network.

Previously ordinary, unremarkable people can suddenly become social media influencers with significant fame via publishing “transition” and other trans themed videos on youtube and other social media channels.

It is remarkable to me that, in an era where teens and young people live their lives via social media and value themselves in terms of how many “likes” and positive comments they receive, that none of the trans campaigning groups ever express any concerns or cautions about the potential for children and young people to come to harm or to make bad decisions based on social media fame, which can be transitory. Comments can shift from being adoring to hateful and trolling in the blink of an eye, so there is much pressure for the trans social media influencers to tow the party line. The risks of dissent are significant.

I do not doubt that changing one’s life from an ordinary person to a stunning and brave TV and social media star can be an exciting and gratifying experience. However should a person have doubts about their transition it seems that they are no longer welcome in their new trans family networks. Everyone has to tow the line in order for the “family’ to hold together. It is extremely difficult for people to leave behind their new family, especially as it is not uncommon for people to have left behind their family of origin or to have experienced conflict within their family of origin regarding their transition. In this way the trans networks can become cult like and it can be difficult for people to leave their new trans family.

Distinguishing features of cults include that dissent is not tolerated and that it is difficult to leave. Apostates are shunned and considered to be Judas like figures. I would feel much more supportive of the trans support and activist groups if were they more provisional and cautious in their narratives. The very certainty with which they provide unsupported claims and advocate life changing, experimental surgical procedures to vulnerable young people leaves me feeling extremely concerned that children and vulnerable young adults are being abused and subjected to unethical experimentation.

Another aspect of this issue that I have been thinking about is that of factitious disorder and factitious disorder imposed upon another (formerly Munchausen syndrome and Munchausen syndrome by proxy).

As readers will no doubt be aware this disorder is characterised by, in the case of factitious disorder, people adopting a significant degree of subterfuge and manipulation in order to gain access to hospital settings and adopting the role of patient. It is unremarkable for people with factitious disorder to endure multiple dangerous, painful and disfiguring surgeries and drug treatments as part of their quest.

This fascinating paper provides clear definitions of the differences between somatoform disorders, factitious disorder and malingering. (I am dubious about the validity of these categories and will explore this further in the thread about the screaming schoolgirls of Malaysia.)

The paper also lists some of the sophisticated and manipulative lengths some people will go to to obtain the status of a patient. Some people injure their genital and / or anal region, some inject themselves with noxious substances, some set to work on themselves with a nail file. Many endure painful and dangerous surgeries for no other reason than to experience the concerned attention of others that is central to the experience of being a patient in a hospital setting.

Fascinating details here

www.nzma.org.nz/journal/read-the-journal/all-issues/2010-2019/2011/vol-124-no-1342/article-kenedi

In factitious disorder imposed upon another a person in a position of power over another (usually a parent) will maliciously harm another person (usually their child) in order to feign or reproduce serious illness and force the child to endure unnecessary medical procedures in order to enjoy the excited concern and attention of medical professionals.

Interestingly it is not uncommon for people with FD and FDiA to have a background in nursing or the medical profession. This makes sense in terms of the fact that the subterfuge necessary for them to be successful in their quest necessitates a great deal of medical knowledge.

Possibly the most notorious case of FDiA in the UK is that of the nurse Beverley Alitt who was convicted of murdering 4 children and injuring several others.

I read a very disturbing memoir by the daughter of a mother with FDiA, it was titled “Sickened” and I would recommend the book although, of course, it makes for distressing reading. The book contains photos of the author’s medical notes as a child so the abuse against her by her mother is well documented. Interested readers can watch a video of the author here

Readers will recognise elements of FDiA in the behaviour of some mothers of some trans identifying people.

If, as it seems to me, it is true that extremely vulnerable children and young people with ipse-existing mpulses to self harm / suicide and also vulnerable children who are victims of FDiO are over-represented amongst populations identified as transgender, it would be unremarkable if this population experienced higher rates of actual and attempted suicide.

This does not mean that there are higher rates of attempted and actual suicides, it just means that, given pre-existing vulnerabilities, one would expect an increased rate of suicidal ideation in this group.

So, to conclude, there may well be higher rates of self-harm and suicides in trans identified groups. The conclusions to be drawn from this are diverse.

Certainly one way of looking at it would be to start be appreciating that there is a significant population of extremely vulnerable, extremely unwell children and young people in the UK who are in need of psychiatric help and support.

Could it be that these vulnerable minors are being offered the wrong kinds of support and being encouraged to consider themselves to be transgender as a magical transformative process that will solve everything?

Given that mental health services for adults and children in the UK are, in many locations, not fit for purpose and subjected to significant staff shortages and funding cuts I think that this is a hypothesis worth exploring further.

It may be that only time will tell, however the expense of this experiment is measured in irreversibly damaged bodies of vulnerable people. It is a very expensive price to pay.

Just sharing some thoughts on this issue.

yulet · 18/09/2019 13:06

Yy hood. Not to mention that autism is linked with a higher rate of suicide ideation and suicide, and lots of autistic young people struggle with concepts like "gender" and fitting in.

BlackberriesAndCream · 18/09/2019 13:36

It is interesting how the research on the topic is being conducted - I've seen a few headlines recently about studies, almost always being reported as 'autism rates higher in transgender population'. The research seems to start with those referred to gender clinics, and measures the rates of autistic traits compared to non-transgender populations, rather than, say, looking at autistic and non-autistic populations, and comparing the rate of transgenderism. Although statistically the two methods might lead to the same conclusions, especially if reported correctly that there was a link, rather than any clear causal direction - the fact that it is being done this way seems almost predestined to make people assume that there is already a transgender population as an immutable, unquestionable thing. Moreover, it leads very easily to headlines like the above that reinforce this idea in the public mind. In some reporting of the study, there was justification for it as being of importance because of the higher rate of suicide, and why it was thus important to study what sort of issues might occur more commonly in the trans population than in the non-trans population. The flip side of the coin, that those with certain issues already might be more vulnerable to gender identity issues, seems to me equally important to research.

BlackberriesAndCream · 19/09/2019 07:39

Also, apparently a charity in Canada is putting out statistics saying that 90% of trans suicides are while waiting for transition, and 2% afterwards, and this is now being used as an argument to speed up access to healthcare. (I don't know where the stats are from, as it's all been things that Canadians have posted on Facebook etc, as if they are just accepted fact, though they reference a charity called skipping stones I think). I suspect there is a lot more to those stats than they appear/how they are being used.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 19/09/2019 08:15

If you repeat a lie often enough people start to believe it,

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/09/2019 08:28

It only works as long as people are too bombarded with guilt tripping to ask questions like "do you have a source for those stats?" and "a real source, not your friend's Twitter account".

EmpressLesbianInChair · 19/09/2019 11:20

Well, Mermaids have happily lied about stats in the past.

www.transgendertrend.com/a-scientist-reviews-transgender-suicide-stats/

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 19/09/2019 11:28

Well since they now say (in a deleted tweet)
that there are 8 billion genders I wouldn’t believe them if they said it was Thursday today.

hoodathunkit · 19/09/2019 11:32

Not to mention that autism is linked with a higher rate of suicide ideation and suicide, and lots of autistic young people struggle with concepts like "gender" and fitting in.

absolutely

It is interesting how the research on the topic is being conducted - I've seen a few headlines recently about studies, almost always being reported as 'autism rates higher in transgender population'. The research seems to start with those referred to gender clinics, and measures the rates of autistic traits compared to non-transgender populations, rather than, say, looking at autistic and non-autistic populations, and comparing the rate of transgenderism. Although statistically the two methods might lead to the same conclusions, especially if reported correctly that there was a link, rather than any clear causal direction - the fact that it is being done this way seems almost predestined to make people assume that there is already a transgender population as an immutable, unquestionable thing. Moreover, it leads very easily to headlines like the above that reinforce this idea in the public mind. In some reporting of the study, there was justification for it as being of importance because of the higher rate of suicide, and why it was thus important to study what sort of issues might occur more commonly in the trans population than in the non-trans population. The flip side of the coin, that those with certain issues already might be more vulnerable to gender identity issues, seems to me equally important to research.

worth reposting

Also, apparently a charity in Canada is putting out statistics saying that 90% of trans suicides are while waiting for transition, and 2% afterwards, and this is now being used as an argument to speed up access to healthcare. (I don't know where the stats are from, as it's all been things that Canadians have posted on Facebook etc, as if they are just accepted fact, though they reference a charity called skipping stones I think). I suspect there is a lot more to those stats than they appear/how they are being used.

Canada is a fascinating territory in terms of wokenes and social engineering

there is so much more to say about this, but I just do not have the time right now

Birdsfoottrefoil · 19/09/2019 11:41

Canada, where a Trudeau has had to apologise for wearing blackface

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 19/09/2019 11:42

But not for positively encouraging males dressed and ikkle girls to advise government.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/09/2019 11:44

"Why are rates of trans identification, especially in teenagers, statistically higher in autistic people than in any other group that we're aware of" is the question that should be asked. Didn't someone try and get shitcanned from their university as a result?

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