Trans racial vs transgender

[Gingerkittykat]

Black actor

White actor accused of taking BAME place on scheme to help get people from these communities into the theatre.

*But he says he has experienced much of the same racism and struggles many people of colour have, and identifies as being of mixed heritage.

He says the criticism he has faced has led him to contemplate suicide.*

Does this sound familiar? Trans people have always known they identifies as opposite sex yet want society to accept it. The BAME community are rightly telling this man he can not opt in because some kind of wishy washy feeling that is where he belongs. Bonus points for being suicidal when you don't get your own way.

Or here, with his brother? (He's on the right I think).

MargueritaBlue agree - he looks like Pete Postlewaite is his grandad.

He's got a big nose and had curly hair? Therefore he's black? It sounds racist to me.

He hasn’t misled anyone. Nor does he seem to have been saying he was actually black or demanding that anyone else a scribe to the belief that he is black. It is an unusual case and I don’t think there are parallels with trans cases.

PotatoShape there are more differences - shape of facial features for example, but yes, race is much more nebulous, open to interpretation and social factors than sex.

Sex is a binary - male or female. Intersex People, despite what trans rights activists will have you believe, are not a spectrum between male and female.

And, the vast majority of people aren't intersex anyway, almost all of us are unambiguously female or male. XX or XY, large or small gametes.

But people can, of course, be mixed race in endless variations. It's not a binary.

He's got a big nose and had curly hair? Therefore he's black? It sounds racist to me.

In all honesty...if you saw that photo of the brothers wouldn't you think they were mixed race?

Also some medically relevant differences e.g. people of African origin more likely to have sickle cell anemia and less likely to have cystic fibrosis than people of European origin.

But in general, race is a much more fuzzy-edged category than sex. Mixed race people are common and generally healthy (actually might be healthier than single-race people, because recessive genes are less likely to be expressed). Whereas intersex people are uncommon and likely to have health issues.

Which makes it particularly strange that the woke position is "gender is fluid, race is set in stone".

He doesn't look like that now, though, does he?

I was little and cute once too, doesn't mean I get to be the face of SMA now I'm middle aged.

He's not black. And surely, with his insight to the issues, "if you can't see, it you can't be it" must prickle his conscience a bit.

Perhaps we need some Arts schemes to support people who look a bit mixed race but who aren't?

He still looks mixed race to me, not that you can always tell by sight if someone is of mixed heritage. I see no problem with such schemes supporting people of mixed heritage. What's the alternative? Having to prove you are of 'pure blood'? Is that really a route we should entertaining?

The name though, Soweto? That seems, a bit, well, crass.

Looked him up. I think he looks mixed race for sure and I would be very unsurprised if it turned out that the man who he thought he was his father is not genetically related to him.

I judged the situation purely on the BBC article but on reading the Guardian article I can see it is a far more complex situation than Rachel Dolziel where she was simply deluded about her race.

The fact he suffered racial abuse as a child and was discriminated against as a young actor does make a massive difference.

But he is mixed race as his ancestry dna test showed, and he says he has been treated as mixed race his whole life. 33% of his dna is West African. It's more than a 'wishy washy' feeling OP, and completely different to the trans debate. As a mixed race person, I don't see the problem with him being given a place on the BAME scheme. It would appear that one of his parents may not have been fathered by the person they thought they were, but took after the white side.

Exactly, Samosaurus - he is mixed race. If a third of his DNA is West African, it doesn't matter that his parents look white. All his life he seems to have been treated by other people as mixed race, and been subjected to racist comments. I don't see the fact that his parents look white as being relevant, to be honest.

I would remind people of the case of Sandra Laing, a mixed race woman born to white parents in apartheid-era South Africa. She was treated by the apartheid state as "coloured" (the term they used to describe mixed race people).

This article describes what happened to her:

www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2003/mar/17/features11.g2

Perceived discrimination is what this is about. If you're treated less favourably because someone thinks you have a protected characteristic then whether you actually have it is neither here nor there. Its in the EA.

Bonus points for being suicidal when you don't get your own way.

Did you watch the F*ing video. He's felt suicidal because of the perceived prejudice. Your post is crass and ill judged.

If a third of his DNA is West African, it doesn't matter that his parents look white. All his life he seems to have been treated by other people as mixed race, and been subjected to racist comments. I don't see the fact that his parents look white as being relevant, to be honest.

If anything, having white parents would have made his life harder, because they wouldn't have the experience to help him deal with racism.

But are "really" being black, and being disadvantaged through discrimination, the same thing?

If this guy were clearly black, with black parents, but very well off and with no real barriers to getting into acting, would anyone be complaining?

Reminds me of this case in Ohio. Large swathes of the local population identify as black.. despite appearances. Initially you'd be a little annoyed until their story reveals that historically and when older residents were young, any black heritage meant you would be treated socially, as black.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/25/race-east-jackson-ohio-appalachia-white-black

Kind of the reverse of what many trans people claim- that social transition erases the privilege or disadvantages stemming from their biological sex. In this case, although now deemed white by social convention the Ohio residents childhood lived experience of being 'black' has lasting consequence into adult life.