The NHS's webpages on transgenderism

[TerfTalk]

In a weird way, they were not as bad as I imagined they would be.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

Pros

• They don't seem to confuse "sex" and "gender", which is a good start.
• Additionally, the pages are titled "gender dysphoria", which I personally feel is a better term.
• Also, they seem to advocate a "watch and wait" policy with kids. Most of the treatments suggested are counselling-based, which I think is excellent.

Cons

• They imply that everyone has a gender identity
• They state that it isn't a mental illness, but then label it as "dysphoria", which I believe is a mental illness? (Please correct me if I'm wrong)
• The pages are out of date. If you scroll to the bottom, it says that the next review date is April 1st 2019... so the pages haven't been updated when they should have been (which is interesting in itself)

These are the 'symptoms' in children according to the NHS:

Gender dysphoria behaviours in children can include:

• insisting they're of the opposite sex
• disliking or refusing to wear clothes that are typically worn by their sex and wanting to wear clothes typically worn by the opposite sex
• disliking or refusing to take part in activities and games that are typically associated with their sex, and wanting to take part in activities and games typically associated with the opposite sex
• preferring to play with children of the opposite biological sex
• disliking or refusing to pass urine as other members of their biological sex usually do – for example, a boy may want to sit down to pass urine and a girl may want to stand up
• insisting or hoping their genitals will change – for example, a boy may say he wants to be rid of his penis, and a girl may want to grow a penis
• feeling extreme distress at the physical changes of puberty

Are there really parents who think there's something wrong with their daughter if she wants to wear trousers and play football with the boys?

And if it's not an illness, why are there 'symptoms' which require diagnosis and medical treatment?

OldCrone I had every single one of those symptoms as a child. Lucky those dark ages doctors have finally learned how to fix kids now, right?

Oh yes, I agree that most of it was hugely offensive and unforgivably damaging, but it wasn’t as bad as I imagined.

Tbf, in general, those webpages do seem to have been written by someone with a brain. There has been a clear effort to be logical.

The first signs of gender dysphoria can appear at a very young age. For example, a child may refuse to wear typical boys' or girls' clothes, or dislike taking part in typical boys' or girls' games and activities.
In most cases, this type of behaviour is just part of growing up and will pass in time, but for those with gender dysphoria it continues through childhood and into adulthood.

Hopefully people will take note of that most in the second para.

Disliking the clothes or stereotypical activities of either sex isn't something that 'will pass in time' for many people who are perfectly healthy and have no dysphoria. I love being a woman, but mostly wear clothes and do activities that are not especially stereotypically 'feminine'.

That para seems to suggest that we all ought to like the stereotypes ascribed to our sex, which is a large part of the underlying problem with all this gender stuff, imo.

Also, I can see no mention of “Mermaids” anywhere! Which is a massive relief!

I remember going through a stage where I insisted on peeing whilst standing up.
I'd seen my Dad doing a quick hedgie on a walk and thought it looked far less faff than having to sort out my trousers and knickers then sit on the loo.
Things got a bit messy for a while til I finally gave up and sat on the loo like all the other girls.
Would that make me trans now??

True, scrimshaw. It should say something like, in the vast majority of cases this is not a sign of dysphoria at all.

disliking or refusing to pass urine as other members of their biological sex usually do – for example, a boy may want to sit down to pass urine and a girl may want to stand up

All of these are perfectly normal behaviours in many gender-non-conforming children, but the one above seems particularly daft to me.

Where I was brought up, most males sit down to pee in private toilets (unless there is a urinal available). For simple hygiene reasons. They go straight from sitting on a potty to sitting on a toilet.

A man I know thought this was particularly unmanly and made fun of blokes who pee sitting down, called them hen-pecked and so on. Until he renovated a bathroom and found the floor around the toilet had rotted from the less than perfect aim of the blokes living there. He was beyond disgusted and whenever he gets the chance now he tells everyone to pee sitting down.

So if his grandson goes to nursery and wants to sit, according to this stupid list, it's a sign of gender dysphoria when it has nothing to do with that at all.

I remember going through a stage where I insisted on peeing whilst standing up.

It is something you have to try really, isn't it . I think I may have tried it with friends at school . As for the refusal - is that not more a battle of wills?

Am I reading too much into the missed update of these webpages? They weren't supposed to be updated in April, but they haven't been. Given the controversy of this debate, this negligence is interesting...

I'm pretty sure that originally there was a link to the fishy-tailed ones, and the usual story, and I have a vague recollection of it changing, but sorry, can't remember when.

Just to say that I have mastered the peeing standing up thing 😇

And I am not the pee perv, I just have a sensitive bladder and an unwillingness to come in from the garden and take my wellies off to have a pee,especially when its every half hour.

Around about April 2018. They seem to have done it a year early.

Does anyone know who in the NHS I should contact to ask about the information on the pages? I want to see their sources...

TerfTalk There is a contact form for website comments here:

www.nhs.uk/contact-us/nhs-website-contact-us

I have contacted them in the past (not related to this subject) and it is worth adding something like,

"Please let me know if there is a particular person I should contact or details of any relevant policy or guidance?"

These pages give details on how the site is run - I don't recall seeing anything like this level of transparency on other Government websites!

Governance of the NHS website
www.nhs.uk/our-policies/governance-of-the-nhs-website/

Content policy
www.nhs.uk/our-policies/content-policy/