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Original poster

Draft equalities guidance leak on trans policies for schools

54 replies

BiologyIsReal · 30/08/2019 10:54

Cannot find on online Daily Telegraph but page 2 of print edition
says a confidential Equality and Human Rights Commission leaked draft reveals admissions of trans students to single sex schools may be considered on a case-by-case basis.

Trans boys should be let in to single sex girls schools. It says "A refusal to to admit a trans pupil to a single-sex school......would be discrimination. Admitting such a pupil would not affect the school's single sex status. A pupil who has transitioned, or wants to, must be allowed to continue to attend the school. To remove them would amount to direct gender reassignment discrimination."

Article too long to quote completely but it goes on to say the guidance urges schools to install gender-neutral lavatories, changing and shower rooms wherever possible. If not, trans boys and trans girls can use the single-sex facilities that align with their gender if they wish to do so.

Women's Place (Kiri Tunks) is quoted saying "This guidance shows the mess we create when we conflate sex and gender. The EHRC seems very confused about the difference."

Mermaids (who else?) says "We believe in every transgender child's right to live their life freely and with support and understanding"

(Or as they might have said.. bugger the rights of every natal born girl or boy to live their life freely and with support and understanding).

An EHRC spokesman said "This document is a draft. It will be an important document for schools to help them support all children and meet their duties under the Equality Act."

So no indication that anything in that will change any time soon. Nor that they themselves understand the importance of sex in the Equalties Act either.

OP posts:
LizzieSiddal · 30/08/2019 11:00

A pupil who has transitioned, or wants to, must be allowed to continue to attend the school. To remove them would amount to direct gender reassignment discrimination.

Unless they have a GRC how can they have transitioned? And you can't get a GRC until you are 18, therefore no child at school has transitioned.
So the whole policy relies on the phrase "or wants to transition", which is Self Id- not yet legal as far as we know!

LizzieSiddal · 30/08/2019 11:01

Also wasn't there a recent report from the Govt's Equalities commission stating that the Equalities Act isn't being upheld and it needs to be!

littlbrowndog · 30/08/2019 11:03

Yeah exactly Lizzie no child can transition

littlbrowndog · 30/08/2019 11:05

Legally

LizzieSiddal · 30/08/2019 11:09

Is there any way we can educate this commission to uphold the actual Law?

It's going to take more of our time, effort, money and Court Cases isn't is.Angry

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 30/08/2019 11:14

Trans boys should be let in to single sex girls schools

Does this mean 'XY children who identify as girls should be allowed into single sex girls schools' or 'XX children who identify as boys should be allowed into single sex girls schools'?

It isn't at all clear to me which position is being taken in this statement.

And is this advocating mixed sex facilities as well as single sex?

Article too long to quote completely but it goes on to say the guidance urges schools to install gender-neutral lavatories, changing and shower rooms wherever possible. If not, trans boys and trans girls can use the single-sex facilities that align with their gender if they wish to do so.

Really this mangling of language makes it impossible for people who haven't spent hours trying to get their heads round the ideology to understand what is being proposed.

HermioneWeasley · 30/08/2019 11:17

The EHRC are shambolic on this issue

Doyoumind · 30/08/2019 11:17

Is that not saying that a trans boy ie a female should be allowed into a girls' school? To me that's fine. Trans girls (ie males) would go to boys' school. Isn't it just saying they can stay at school if they decide to transition?

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 30/08/2019 11:21

Is that not saying that a trans boy ie a female should be allowed into a girls' school? To me that's fine. Trans girls (ie males) would go to boys' school. Isn't it just saying they can stay at school if they decide to transition?

That's the way I would read it, except it doesn't fit in with 'transboys and transgirls should be allowed to use single sex facilities that align with their gender'.

Quite aside from the conflating sex and gender thing the message is inconsistent, unless by 'trans boys' they mean 'boys who identify as sexist stereotypes of girls'.

littlbrowndog · 30/08/2019 11:21

But there’s no such thing as a trans girl or boy in law. No such thing
They are girls or boys

It’s that simple.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 30/08/2019 11:22

A refusal to to admit a trans pupil to a single-sex school......would be discrimination

Well yes, that is the point; they are allowed to discriminate on the basis of sex

Doyoumind · 30/08/2019 11:27

I assumed it was saying that a trans boy could use the men's toilets in a girls' school if they wanted to, although in practical terms it's not quite so simple when you don't have toilets and changing facilities for the use of 'boy' pupils.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 30/08/2019 11:27

Now waiting for posters to come and tell us we must shut up, look the other way and leave it to our betters, or ask what our plan is...

MrsSnippyPants · 30/08/2019 11:28

More discussion here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3677767-New-EHRC-guidance-for-schools?pg=1

MrGHardy · 30/08/2019 11:32

The whole farce is highlighted by the fact that trans students can continue at a school of their natal sex, but at the same time also go to the one of their 'chosen gender'. If they can theoretically be in both, but both are different, what is the point?

Qcng · 30/08/2019 11:34

This is just so, so confusing.

"Trans boys should be allowed into girls schools" YES. They're female right? As in actually female (not female with a penis)

Or do they means boys wanting to be girls? In that case no.

A pupil who has transitioned, or wants to, must be allowed to continue to attend the school hell yeah. If a female in an all girls school wants to change her name and pronouns to that of a "boy" she shouldn't be kicked out of school.

So on the surface I agree with every word.

But it really needs to be actually clear what the hell they're on sbout.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 30/08/2019 11:35

Can we complain here?

www.spso.org.uk/

Or as government department (not devolved to Scotland) here:

www.ombudsman.org.uk/

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 30/08/2019 11:36

Farce is about the sum of it.

The whole thing could easily be sorted by simply saying 'everyone is allowed to use the facilities for the sex they actually are and picking on people who dress or act a bit differently won't be tolerated'.

littlbrowndog · 30/08/2019 11:38

Yes Arnold exactly. So simple yet ........

Birdsfoottrefoil · 30/08/2019 11:39

Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman

Is your complaint about a UK government department or public organisation?
By law, we can only look at complaints about UK government departments and other UK public organisations if a Member of Parliament (MP) refers the complaint to us. You can complete our complaint form and ask an MP or their office to sign it.

www.ombudsman.org.uk/making-complaint/complain-us-getting-started/complaint-forms

Birdsfoottrefoil · 30/08/2019 11:42

Has anyone complained directly to EHRC about this? You need to do this first before going to the ombudsman.

MissLawls · 30/08/2019 11:52

^But there’s no such thing as a trans girl or boy in law. No such thing
They are girls or boys. It’s that simple.^

Exactly! There is no such thing as a trans child.

Doyoumind · 30/08/2019 12:25

I've read the Telegraph article and it is definitely talking about pupils attending the school which matches their sex, even if they identify as another gender, and schools being required to take steps to make them feel comfortable. I don't see a problem with that. Much better that than allowing them into schools which match their chosen gender.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 30/08/2019 12:26

I think they are saying that a girls school can admit a transgender girl (ie a boy who wishes to be regarded as a girl) without it affecting their exemption under the Equalities Act. The exemption allows for a de minimis number of the opposite sex to use a single sex facility without rendering the exemption in effective. If too many boys were admitted then reliance on the exemption could not be maintained and the school would have to be mixed sex. I don’t think it is saying that the school has to admit pupils of the opposite sex, but rather that if a school chooses to do so they can continue to be a single set school.

I addition the guidance is saying that if a girl at the girls school decides to transition, they cannot be told to leave the school on the basis that a girl transitioning cannot be treated any differently than a girl who hasn’t.

I haven’t read the original, so this is just based on what is written above.

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