Five men know what a woman is

[FannyCann]

I have been ploughing through the Law Commission Consultation paper on surrogacy. (More coming soon on the thread I started about it). I nearly missed this little detail.
Oh yes. Only a woman can be a surrogate. Looks like those five men (The Law Commission (www.lawcom.gov.uk/about/who-we-are/) seem to know what a woman is after all, at least when it comes to harnessing her reproductive powers for the production of babies for other people. Trans women aren’t the sort of women who can have babies. Who knew?

They always know when they want to buy a baby. Funny that.

I haven’t been following the Times column but thanks for the share token. It’s confusing though- why is it ‘USA or bust?’ A doctor can’t keep a woman’s embryo because she cant afford to use it with him- why can’t she fly it back into England and then work out the next step?

Chatty yeah I don’t think there is much research on it. If we accept that kids who were adopted suffer issues (although adoption is of course the least bad outcome where parent can’t or won’t look after their kids) how can we be so sure that kids born by surrogacy suffer no issues at all? What makes it so different?

Also, how is this any different to buying and selling organs? At least an organ can save a life. There is absolutely no medical reason for a child to be conceived. It’s all about satisfying the demands of adults. Often, there are heartbreaking stories of infertility behind it. Sometimes it’s just a display of pure greed and selfishness, eg Kim K who already had 2 kids and then another two by surrogate. And sometimes it’s fucking sinister, such as that Australian pedophile who dumped his Down’s syndrome kid with the impoverished surrogate in Thailand and fled to Australia with the healthy twin sister. In none of these cases can surrogacy be seen as a necessity. It just reeks so badly of western privilege and of wanting something to the extent that you will exploit others to get it, including your own kid.

@FannyCann

I had your Juno post marked to read later.
Maybe you could repost it with different wording that MN would find acceptable.
Or even better, post it on spinster.xyz/home where it could be read and freely discussed.

@aliasundercover Sorry I'm confused. What Juno post?

@JazzyGG mentioned her Juno post had been taken down. But was this on a different thread? There aren't any deletions and I didn't see it.

I don't know what it was about at all!

@FannyCann yes different thread I just posted on the most recently commented. It was about this below and must have had some
Interesting comments but sadly I didn't see!

www.stylist.co.uk/people/juno-dawson-dating-as-a-trans-woman-myths/291297/amp

@FannyCann
@JazzyGG

I'm so sorry. Multiple pages open at once explains part of it - but how I @ed the wrong person is a mystery even to me!

Thanks JazzyGG, and apologies once again FannyCann

@truthisarevolutionaryact

Thanks so much for the share token. I've been aware of this column but haven't had a chance to see it before. I'm very shocked, firstly by her international hunt for fertility treatment and surrogates, secondly by the position she now finds herself in. How could she have got so far in the USA and not known the birth costs etc would be astronomical?
Aside of my view on surrogacy, as someone who has spent much of her working life in the NHS, I know it is far from perfect, and as regards fertility treatment I think e all know about the postcode lottery and rationing. But I actually have a lot of faith that the NHS provides great protection from a lot of the cowboy/mcmafia practices around the world. For instance the triannual reviews of maternal mortality have been around since about the 1950's, (and make very interesting reading) every maternal death is reviewed up to a year post birth, and contributing factors considered even if it was a random RTA.
This has contributed enormously to improvements in safety and obstetric care, the most recent one has focussed on maternal mental health as suicide (which used to be counted as a "fortuitous" or "indirect" death is now given the importance it deserves with advice for mental health care.
None of this exists in the USA, which has the worst maternal mortality statistics in the western world.

I would NEVER consider travelling to countries like the USA or the Ukraine for this sort of care!

No problem @aliasundercover and @JazzyGG

I'm going to post more on the thread I started soon

Building families through surrogacy: A new Law - Consultation
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3649812-building-families-through-surrogacy-a-new-law-consultation

I encourage anyone who is interested to respond to the consultation. Don't be put off by 502 pages and 118 questions! They did that to discourage people like us!

Nordic Model Now have just sent me the link to their ten minute upload. I am just comparing their answers to mine and will post more soon but I think I'll concentrate on the other thread.

@Pota2 the plight of little Bridget is heartbreaking. As for surrogacy in the Ukraine - it's Mcmafia in the maternity ward isn't it. And yet our law commissioners chose to go to the Ukraine to consult!
I tagged JK Rowling and her Lumos charity on twitter and really hope they may be able to reach out to Bridget.

Also there is a consultation event coming up in London on 19th September. I'm going if anyone else wants to come along let me know.

I hope that something can be done to help her. It breaks my heart that she will just be left with no treatment. It’s no life and she seems such a loving little girl and she never asked to be born. It was all her selfish parents’ fault and then they just left her. Breathtaking.

I will look at the consultation. I agree- I think they want to drown us in paperwork so that ordinary people don’t respond and they can pretend like everyone agrees. I am glad that Nordic Model Now have produced a guide.

I looked at the consultation a while ago and was totally put off. Will give it another go!

Wait til I've posted the Nordic Model Now ten minute version! I haven't had a chance to go through it yet this evening but I'll post it soon.

Hi @ChattyLion @Pota2 @failingatlife @truthisarevolutionaryact

I've posted a lot more details on this thread and will continue to use that one to encourage people to please, please respond to the consultation.

Building families through surrogacy: A new Law - Consultation
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3649812-building-families-through-surrogacy-a-new-law-consultation

Here is the Nordic Model Now response which can be downloaded and emailed to the law Commission for a ten minute response. Please do it, or give longer answers to key questions if you wish.

nordicmodelnow.org/2019/08/30/how-to-respond-to-the-uk-surrogacy-consultation-in-10-easy-minutes/

Grammar fail, this and that muddled. But I mean the main Law Commission response thread I started, as linked.

Thank you Fanny

Thank you Fanny. It is outrageous that a consultation is written in this way - it's almost as if they're deliberately excluding ordinary people (especially women) in order to ensure that they get the responses that they want. We really ought to be used to it now - the manipulation of consultation to get the results that men want in this country is becoming a national scandal!

FannyCannthanks for posting that video. I was in floods of tears. That poor poor little girl

Awful.

One of the comments on it is

Please viewers don't blame the surrogates. They are desperate

Oh I blame them 100% - stupid, selfish, horrible people.