Men and their planning/performance in close relationships

[SpamChaudFroid]

I'm a fairly damaged individual, and have attracted the kind of creeps men who like damaged women. Men who are physically and emotionally abusive. Reading I've done since suggests that during these terrifying physical displays of anger, they do not in fact feel angry or furious, it’s performed as a tool to control/train.

I'm ashamed to say that in my earlier DV relationships, I would hit back, but I would FEEL furious, not perform it. Angry like when you are a child and just overwhelmed by the unfairness of it all.

I was reading a thread this morning where the male partner was controlling what the poor woman wore, if she wore trousers why not a skirt and heels kind of thing, but perversely, if she wore heels, why not trousers. Obviously designed to keep her in a state of upside-down and I realised these abusive men must be always forward planning, never just being in the moment with their partner.

This made me think - I can honestly say I've never planned how I'm going to treat a partner, I just dealt with them honestly and directly, (well as much as you can in a DV relationship). Does this mean that the majority of men have a plan of how they are to treat a partner? And how much acting is required? (Acting anger, remorse for eg.) The times when I've appeared angry, I am and also feel completely out of control. I would not be able to decide to "hype myself up" to be violent towards somebody as many men can.

Also I wonder how much of this controlling behaviour is conscious or unconscious. Like a man saying to a woman he's just met that he's been violent to women in the past - is this a deliberate ploy to gauge his intended victim's response and weed out the women who are disgusted by this or is it unconscious?

If this level of self control is being used to mete out the anger effectively, then surely the entire emotional self is just as carefully controlled. Happiness and tenderness doled out in careful portions for rewards when the partner has behaved well, undermining or a backhander when not. Describing that process reminds me of training my dog, (without the backhander obvs!)which first made me laff, then made me sad.

Then I began wondering if it's it just abusive men that have a script and a plan that they follow, or do all men. We know men treat us differently to other men. I think I'm right when I say it's not even been a century since women were seen as chattels along with the livestock. And I'm aware I still have a tendency to centre men, in spite of knowing what I know. Sadly I was socialised into ladyhood, (not Womanhood) which did not serve me well - I responded to those violent and abusive men and their scripts exactly as they wanted me to. I guess I did learn to perform happiness.

I was going to post this in AIBU, but I'm not sure that's the right place for it. I feel a bit dumb to be posting in FWR though, I've only been aware of all this shit for the last year or so. So many people have been dismissive, or I've been told to "stop thinking" , "don't be angry". Just ignore and let me ramble away in the corner if you like

This is about the much larger number of individuals who regularly assault, belittle, demean their partners, many (maybe the majority) of whom are women.

I know women can be awful and emotionally abusive, but what makes men so dangerous is the threat of violence. A man just has to get angry and kick things to make a woman feel threatened. He doesn't have to actually directly threaten her.

Men are not physically scared of their partners, are unlikely to be financially dependent on them and aren't the ones considered responsible for the children.

Those women who are killed are the tip of an abusive iceberg and to suggest men suffer just as much is insulting.

Ffs I can't believe I am even replying to you.

Does anyone get the feeling FWR has been infiltrated by MRA?

Men are not physically scared of their partners

How can you type this with a straight face.

My friend was terrified of his partner, as most people would be by somebody who is regularly violent and is now brandishing a kitchen knife at them.

My father is also bullied by my mother and has been for years. Not violently but very consistently and systematically for years. Most of my family are NC with her because of it but she continues to blame him.

People always throw the accusation of MRA, but if that's what challenging a harmful (and likely untrue) narrative about men is....well then I guess I must be one.

I won't make spurious accusations. I'm just recounting my lived experiences (feel free not to believe them) and quoting published studies on the subject.

I suggest you start a refuge for all these men in your life who need to escape violent and controlling women. Or start a thread on it.

This thread was about controlling men and understanding where those behaviours come from and how to recognise them. By a woman who has repeatedly found herself with abusive men.

If you don't want discussion don't post on a discussion forum.

@ShortCircuit181 can you explain why you As A Man why you are so threatened by women talking? As I am sure you are aware this is my first time starting a thread in FWR. You clearly relish bullying women, as illustrated by your pages of statistics that mean zero to me.

And how all-encompassing your entitlement must be telling women where to post in a FWR section on a site used mainly by women. Fuck that.

Ignore the MRAs. They wilfully don't get it and no amount of stats and objectivity helps because they have anecdata to rely on.

I'm not bullying anyone. I posted a study that gave a differing conclusion to the one usually states on here, and I've stated that it's not a clear cut issue. Various other posters have posted similar things.

Have you spoken to Women's Aid Russhian? I am glad that you are going to be earning again. Make sure when you get out next time you get proper support and don't give him yet another chance.

I know it isn't easy.

If a man is being an arsehole, his motivations don't matter. They really, really don't.

Also, most - if not all - of these coercive controlling dickheads know exactly what they are doing, and they enjoy every moment of their puppetry. Don't doubt it. There has been research into this behaviour, and men have admitted to hiding their outright nastiness until the woman is completely hooked. They plan their behaviour very carefully.

Yes, I do think it’s a deliberate tactic. I do think they consciously plan abuse.

I’m quite ‘feisty’. I’m independent, I trust myself, I don’t exactly believe my place is barefooted at the sink. The men I encountered didn’t like that. My exH took it as a challenge to see if he can break me into submission. He never nurtured, admired or even accepted my independence, self respect and willingness to succeed. To him it was a challenge. To turn me into what he wanted me to be.

Mine praised those qualities whilst simultaneously undermining me the whole time. Total headfuck for someone who naturally is also a people pleaser.

@ShortCircuit181 All studies I have ever encountered shows the exact opposite so I call BS to the study you refer to. No way in hell was that peer reviewed and published in an accredited magazine.

And I find it hilarious that you go on a thread that talks about men gaslighting to gaslight the other readers.

Mine praised those qualities whilst simultaneously undermining me the whole time. Total headfuck for someone who naturally is also a people pleaser.

Yep yep yep.

Love bombing > emotional neglect > cultivating dependence > abuse.

It’s a pretty classic pattern. Of course it is planned. Any notion a man is somehow acting in the heat of the moment is poppycock. Pretty much all abusers managing to reign in punching their partner in the face of they are stood next to a police officer. There are just times where they choose to give into that impulse. Any idea men can’t help themselves is bullshit.

4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2968709/
(d) women’s physical violence is more likely than men’s violence to be motivated by self-defense and fear, whereas men’s physical violence is more likely than women’s to be driven by control motives;

To those of you saying it's not sexist if a woman can do it too

When someone starts a thread, the whole purpose of which is to ask "is this a man thing?", the only way to consider if it is or not is to ask the questions: "do women do it to?" and "do all men do this?".
Which of course leads to cries of NAMALT and BWDIT!! But how else are we supposed to think about it?

I didn't start the thread to ask "is this a man thing". I know this behaviour statistically is attributed to men. I was questioning at what point the forward planning becomes abuse/training. Why did you jump on this thread to defend men? (presuming you are not one) They don't need defending the last time I checked. I do get the man defending thing, I used to be a NAMALTer myself.

And I find it hilarious that you go on a thread that talks about men gaslighting to gaslight the other readers

Perfectly showcasing their complete lack of self awareness.

And I do think it grim that self confessed MRAs hang around the FWR section waiting to harass new posters who are attempting to work through all this stuff. If I hadn't been lurking here for a while I'd have been chased off by the sealioning.

It's quite an art isn't it? You are not just disbelieved but told women do it more.

I'm a fairly damaged individual, and have attracted the kind of creeps men who like damaged women

That statement must have been like catnip for MRAs 😂

I'm a bloke and I don't hang around looking to 'correct' FWR posters or troll threads - in fact I've mainly lurked until recently. I just come on here sometimes to get a different perspective and educate myself.

However, it can be hard not to respond sometimes when you see your sex being demonised with sweeping statements which seem untrue based on your own experiences.

My personal experience has been that women can be just as controlling and abusive as men, and perhaps that's where my interest in dismantling gender stereotypes comes from.

@DailyBrie because we're talking about men as a class, not specific individuals.

This always comes up ... "but I'm nice" or "my husband/partner/brother/father/whatever is nice". Maybe they are ,maybe they aren't. It's irrelevant when looking at class analysis. And men as a class are predominantly the perpetrators of violent crimes,abuse,rape etc. If that upsets you, don't take it up with us, take it up with your class. They don't listen to us anyways.

My personal experience has been that women can be just as controlling and abusive as men

Have you been in intimate relationships with men then? Spent time in settings with a lot of men who want a sexual relationship with you?

Otherwise how can you say that,?

I'm sorry for you that you have been abused and controlled by women, however I assume that you like most men have no real concept of the nature and scale of abuse women deal with daily, let alone what happens to women who get involved with abusive men.