Epstein, Prince Andrew and the normalization of powerful men exploiting powerless women & children

[deepwatersolo]

Prince Andrew's statement about 'not knowing' (even after Epstein's conviction) makes it obvious that he can't even conceptualize why the grooming and sexual exploitation of lower class women and children by men of their clout might be wrong.

This is as much a class issue as an issue of misogyny imo, and I frankly wonder, how pervasive this attitude is today.

I very much like Marina Hyde's piece on the issue, which verbalizes eloquently what I felt but could not really put into words: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/23/prince-andrew-appalled-epstein-royal-wedding

Obviously, this type of stuff has been going on for ages, but I do wonder, whether our society is turning the page now (also thinking of the #metoo movement here), or whether after some lip service it will all continue as it always has.

Thoughts?

(Sorry if there is already some thread on this that I missed, let me know where it is and I'll join it).

I wish I could say with confidence that we are turning a corner, but I don't think we are.
PIE were dismantled but the men involved didn't go anywhere.
We got The Equality Act and safeguarding but human rights are not being strengthened - human trafficking has increased.
The rate of deaths caused by DV has risen, the number of women murdered in 'sex gone wrong' assaults has rocketed.
The conviction rates for rape are at an all time low.
Homophobic assaults on lesbians are as much a problem as they ever were.

Its really clear that although UKIP are the only party to openly say they want to abolish The Equality Act, that many people and political parties want safeguarding and equality legislation to be undermined so much it becomes useless.

Its obvious that mens sexual rights come first for many people and they don't care about the harm.

hear hear deepwatersolo

Hah. Power corrupts. The powerful will always exploit the weak. Powerful are both men and women. That will never change.
It’s not “being normalised” it has been around for as long as humans have been humans.
But, not every person with power is corrupt. So Prince Andrew really could not have known. Most corrupt powerful people disguise themselves by making friends with good powerful people. It is like a front for illegal business...they are different person with these friends so that they can use them later to say, oh, we friends, he is good (when the bad side has been hidden).
Think how many people accused of wrongness? They have celebrity, royalty posting “I know this person, they are not like that. The accuser is out to get their money etc”; all these bad people they collect friends like this by being fake.

Lots of bad people are weak too. Just can’t do much harm. Problem is bad + power. Impossible to have only good + power.

Toxic combination of sex, power and money. The untouchables.

I just don't understand how Prince Andrew could "not have known". He cannot be that stupid, he maintained friendship with Epstein after his imprisonment for prostituting minors. He must have known about this, and I also cannot believe that his advisers, or even the security serv did

Sorry pressed send too soon.

... Security services didn't advise him that it was a bad idea.

He’s disgusting.

Very good C4 series on the Royals on now. On the plus side, they are not shy to fight for their country and will be there when duty calls.

On the minus, the Windsor Men are in the main an appalling bunch of philandering rogues, with the fortunate and notable exceptions of Kings G5 and G6.

You could go back to the Baccarat Scandal when the future E7 perjured himself before a court of law.

The stinking hypocrisy is when the likes of Charles speaks of his future role as head of the church.

Regards rich men preying on young females of modest means, check out the proceedings in parliament over the introduction of an age of sexual consent at 16, furiously opposed in the lords by Tory peers who demanded to know where their sons would gain the necessary experience.

But, not every person with power is corrupt. So Prince Andrew really could not have known.

How could Prince Andrew not have known after Epstein had pled guilty and had been convicted and had served time? That's impossible.

And yes, Prince Andrew was pals with Epstein and defended him after that pela and conviction.

Is anyone asking questions about security services?

Is anyone asking questions about security services?

You mean Epsteins boodyguards must have known? Frankly, I believe the exploitation of young women and underage girls by men with power and money is very widely accepted, I doubt armed muscle men of all people are more sensitive to the issue.

the exploitation of young women and underage girls by men with power and money is very widely accepted

It's everywhere.

Its obvious that mens sexual rights come first for many people and they don't care about the harm.

This.

It's everywhere.

Also this. Groups of abusive men use whatever tools are available to them and their social standing/environment. Grooming gangs use taxis and flats above fast food shops. Billionaires use private jets and mansions. It's the same thing.

This is all so true and it breaks my heart and makes me so angry. Women are still being conditioned to think they don’t have a voice or a right not to be abused.

Grooming gangs use taxis and flats above fast food shops. Billionaires use private jets and mansions. It's the same thing.

I agree. However I do have the feeling that the billionaires are more 'in your face' about it and don't even fear being called out or any repercussions whatsoever. Polite society will just go along. (Maybe I am wrong, though, and those grooming gangs act with as much impunity. idk. social services often turn a blind eye there, too, after all).

I guess, irrespective of class and objective wealth, it boils down to the fact that men who have relative financial or social power over vulnerable women and girls have an easy time exploiting those females with most of society turning a blind eye.

Heck, thinking back of the 90's, I'd been conditioned to accept that old rich men on yachts surrounded themselves with young (certainly including underage) models in Cannes and Biarritz, just vaguely thinking 'hmmm those girls must be mighty materialistic to choose money over attraction', which clearly blacks out the actual dynamics (as outlined in the accounts of Epstein's victims, for exalmple.). In hindsight, I totally swallowed the perpetrators' narrative. (Except tht they probably find themselves attractive).

I guess, irrespective of class and objective wealth, it boils down to the fact that men who have relative financial or social power over vulnerable women and girls have an easy time exploiting those females with most of society turning a blind eye.

Yes, that's exactly it.

Sunday Times reporting on the latest evidence that Epstein and Prince Andrew appears to have been a lot more closely involved than Prince Andrew claims.

Epstein had 13 separate numbers for Prince Andrew.
There’s also some really distressing extra evidence regarding the injuries one of the victims of Epstein (who also states she was forced to have sex with Prince Andrew) endured due to Epstein.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/paedophile-jeffrey-epstein-had-13-phone-numbers-for-prince-andrew-mx9fk9h0g

From the article:

“Prince Andrew met Jeffrey Epstein, the billionaire paedophile, at least 10 times over the course of their 12-year friendship, according to an investigator.

Mike Fisten, a former police detective sergeant in Florida, claims Epstein had up to 13 phone numbers for the Queen’s second son.”