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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rugby becomes first sport to make “ultimate statement in equality “

181 replies

BiologyIsReal · 22/08/2019 11:57

Can’t link but Daily Telegraph reports today that World Rugby is adopting gender-neutral naming for tournaments, dropping the word “women” from in front of the Women’s Rugby World Cup so men’s and women’s will simply both be known as the Rugby World Cup.

CEO Brett Gosper said it was “a landmark and a statement that we are treating the men’s and women’s games evenly and the potential in each is as powerful as the other”

Sir Bill Beaumont, World Rugby chairman said it showed unwavering commitment to advancing women on Rugby.

“Unintentional gender bias in sport is an ongoing issue. As a global sporting federation we need to be seen leading from the front.”

Good for them. Interesting that one of the most ‘macho’ sports is consistently taking the lead in equality e.g World Rugby is offering extra seats to unions on condition the are filled by women.

Let’s hope our friends, the TRAs, don’t try and hijack the change by claiming the tournaments don’t specify they are “women’s”!

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RoyalCorgi · 23/08/2019 08:27

I think the writer knew exactly what they were doing. They managed to bring up the danger of injuries again and again, and get the information out that the male coach didn't give a shit, and made jokes about it.

I think you could well be right. It's an interesting choice of quotes.

And I'm curious about the paragraph that was removed - the one that mentioned the broken ankle. Do you think the coach asked for it to be taken out? Was it inaccurate? Or just embarrassing?

Popchyk · 23/08/2019 08:41

Presumably an editor at the BBC was instructed by the trans cult to remove it. And being the BBC, they duly did as they were told by their masters.

Reminds me of when an editor of the Today programme on Radio 4 said on Twitter that he would "veto horrific TERFs" from appearing on the programme.

BBC's stance is very clear.

Popchyk · 23/08/2019 08:51

Jolyon Maugham QC (who has form for caving to the trans cult):

twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1164688492963799042

"How the simple joy of sport can transcend fear and hate. Wonderful reporting".

Comments are robust.

RoyalCorgi · 23/08/2019 09:01

I was just about to post that same link, Popchyk! The man is a barrister - surely that requires some ability to reason logically? Why is he celebrating this nonsense? I can only assume that he's yet another man who hates women.

Popchyk · 23/08/2019 09:14

He contributed to Jennifer James' crowdfunder (about Labour's All Women Shortlists) about 18 months ago, stating that it was an interesting legal case.

The transcult mobbed him and he immediately capitulated. It was embarrassing to see a grown man grovel like that.

He apologised and donated the £100 to Mermaids instead.

He's been kowtowing to the trans cult ever since with occasional bursts of trying to distance himself and then immediately grovelling again.

Craven misogynist.

FermatsTheorem · 23/08/2019 09:15

JM is both a misogynist and a coward.

BiologyIsReal · 23/08/2019 09:59

Returning to the thread I started (had no access later yesterday) today’s sports DT reports former England captain complain about the decision to drop “women” from their World Cup title. She said it could strip away the work of recent years in raising the visibility of the women’s game. She believe adding “men’s” would have been better. Cricket has taken that route.

No pleasing some folk 😄

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BiologyIsReal · 23/08/2019 10:00

Missed her name out - Catherine Spencer.

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BuzzShitbagBobbly · 23/08/2019 10:05

I know we have a MNer who is heavily/actively involved in women's rugby. She may have NCdor not seen this yet as I don't see the name I am thinking of in this thread.

But I would welcome her thoughts on this. I have experience too, but from decades ago when none of this bullshit was even a consideration and I could just play and interact with like minded women.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 23/08/2019 10:10

Another angle I saw briefly referred to - will decent, non-misogynistic men want transmen on their teams?

Will they want to put their full weight and strength into a flying full tackle onto someone they know is a biological women, knowing the physical danger they could inflict?

And in the pack? What then? Chicken scratch scrums for any game where the men can't be sure they won't break their oppo's neck through blatantly unequal forces?

(I posted some stats a while ago about the weight and height differences in England squad m/f rugby players and they are significant.)

MissLawls · 23/08/2019 10:18

Jolyon Maugham QC (who has form for caving to the trans cult):

^twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1164688492963799042^

"How the simple joy of sport can transcend fear and hate. Wonderful reporting".

Comments are robust.

Thanks @Popchyk I came here to post that. I have commented on it. Made the point that next time Maugham asks for money to crowdfund one of his cases he may find women somewhat reluctant to open their purses...

What a dickhead. Quite apart from his craven caving to the TRAs he's doing the Remain cause immense harm. That might not bother those who aren't for Remain - and fair enough - but it's a tough enough campaign as it is without one of its self-appointed leaders demonstrating the only women he cares about aren't the ones born as women!

TimeLady · 23/08/2019 10:22

Story from last year

edition.cnn.com/2018/08/02/sport/transgender-rugby-player-verity-smith/index.html

I don't understand why a female taking testosterone is still eligible to play in the women's game. Is doping allowed in rugby? Or is trans-related doping different to performance-enhancing doping?

littlbrowndog · 23/08/2019 11:01

Seen a comment

Jo is so woke he never sleeps

Arse

Ereshkigal · 23/08/2019 11:02

The feminist solution would be to consistently preface the men's world cup with the word "men's", not confuse the hell out of everyone by referring to two entirely different competitions by the same name and try to render women's sport invisible, thus opening the way to wankers like Kelly cheating their way into women's sport and putting women's safety and lives at risk.

Exactly.

littlbrowndog · 23/08/2019 11:05

Jeez and there’s that rugby player breaking the coaches ankle, folding women like deckchair s and injuring team mates in practice

What sort of man does that ?

littlbrowndog · 23/08/2019 11:11

But I don’t understand why a coach would joke about anybody getting injured.

Is getting injured so funny ?

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 23/08/2019 11:39

Is getting injured so funny ?

It's all about the 'banter', innit.
You know, just like how women like to bantz about seriously injuring each other as a sign of pride.

Angry
DanaPhoenix · 23/08/2019 11:40

It's really ramping up now isn't it? It's like a desperate race to push it through before the general public (unaware of what's happening) wake up.

BogglesGoggles · 23/08/2019 11:43

Am I stupid? I genuinely don’t see how this changes anything. Are the female players suddenly going to get more sponsorships or viewers?

CharlieParley · 23/08/2019 12:03

My oldest played rugby from about 12 to 20. I spent more time in A&E with him because of Rugby injuries than I care to remember. So did his friends' parents.

Broken bones
Torn muscles
Snapped tendons
Fractured eye sockets
Neck injuries
Back injuries
Head injuries
Brain injuries

And in all of that, we always knew that they had all been very very lucky not to end up with permanent damage. And that was with evenly matched players respecting the rules (mostly, youthful exuberance did play a part sometimes).

I once remarked upon the fact that while the sport itself can be brutal, ill discipline and foul play are dealt with so swiftly that it seemed far more civilised than football. Even the parents on the sidelines were behaving with so much more respect for referees and opposing teams than at the football matches I also attended as a player's parent.

It is too dangerous a sport to tolerate ill discipline and foul play in Rugby I was told. When the ref calls out dangerous tackles, the players either listen or they get sent off. And eventually they get dropped from the team, because anyone - no matter how talented - who doesn't understand that such actions needlessly risk injury to himself or other players is seen as a danger to all players.

The philosophy is one of accepting the dangers of a full and high speed collision sport, but of carefully minimising and managing risk.

And there is a great awareness of the emerging strength of young males in the rather strict age separation. Instead of putting two year groups together for instance if there are not enough players, there is no team sometimes, because just 12 months in teenage males makes such a huge difference in weight, height, strength, speed and power.

And then the older lads are sent to train with the women when they don't have enough players to train as a team, just to keep up the skills and fitness level.

But after they hit their late teens, this stops, because the boys are becoming too strong - despite the formidable ladies we've got in our local teams.

I always found it frightening, but two things stuck out the most - when my son joined the men's team and was suddenly confronted with the full force of adult males crushing into him (even within legal play, when they take no quarter, however puny the new lad seems, it's beyond scary).

And his last youth game. I had long stopped attending the games, as I found it too frightening and couldn't muster any enthusiasm for seeing my son bloodied yet again.

"Last game mum, I promise you'll enjoy it." Alright, I'll come for a bit, I thought, how bad can it be.

Well, by the time I got there, the refs and coaches were desperately trying to keep a lad warm, and calm who had landed on his head and not gotten up again. Trying to find a place for the helicopter to land, waiting for the ambulance crew to ready him for transport.

If I never see any of my kids or any kid I know play Rugby it'll be too soon. Even if that particular boy was alright, eventually, I know of others who weren't.

Don't get me wrong, the players love, truly love the game. Adults and kids alike. Coming home covered in mud from head to toe with only the whites of their eyes and teeth showing. Proud and exhausted after a victory. It teaches team work like few other games, or so I've come to believe.

Putting men, however they identify, into the women's game doesn't just destroy the women's game, it doesn't just endanger women, it doesn't just piss on any notion of fair play and competition and trample it into the mud, it flies in the face of everything this sport stands for - an honourable contest between two teams of fierce and fearsome physical creatures, whether male and female teams, that pays more than lip service to ideas of fair play, of camaraderie and respect for mates, opponents and officials.

Whoever that person is in that BBC Wales article, this attitude is not one normally celebrated or even tolerated in Rugby. A collective madness must have descended upon the local officials to have enabled this.

GrouchyKiwi · 23/08/2019 12:08

CharlieParley Fantastic post.

BatShite · 23/08/2019 12:10

"I do feel guilty, but what can you do?" she says. "I don't go out to hurt anybody. I just want to play rugby."

Thats usually the response. As if women are trying to stop them playing sport altogether. Nope, but you should be playing against your own sex, rather than having a clear advantage and actually making the women playing unsafe (actually unsafe, not unsafe as someone said a word you dislike..)

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 23/08/2019 12:12

Charley "I once remarked upon the fact that while the sport itself can be brutal, ill discipline and foul play are dealt with so swiftly that it seemed far more civilised than football"

The old adage: "Rugby is a hooligans' game played by gentlemen; and football is a gentleman's game played by hooligans".

I found that true on and off the pitch, male and female players and spectators.

BatShite · 23/08/2019 12:24

The feminist solution would be to consistently preface the men's world cup with the word "men's"

Yup.

I don't understand why a female taking testosterone is still eligible to play in the women's game. Is doping allowed in rugby?

Should be classed as doping, as thats what it is, and is another situation which is hugely unfair for to other women playing. So both male trans people, and female transpeople (who are on testosterone) are in the womens leagues?!

My solution would be basically, transwomen play against their own sex. transmen also play against their own sex, unless they are on testosterone, then they would be disqualified like anyone else would be. Not sure why the word 'trans' makes so many probably otherwise rational people lose their minds..

DanaPhoenix · 23/08/2019 12:30

Your post resonates with most mothers that have watched the game CharleyParley my DS1 decided to play rugby league in year 8, despite only ever having played competitively in cricket, futsal, and soccer (football). I tried to talk him out of it because most players would have been playing since aged 6, and neighbourhood games at the park don't have the same intensity. I didn't attend as many games as I did in his other sports. Those I did I would be cringing and turning my head away, not just for my own son either.