Girls disadvantaged in eleven plus

[Leapyearlover]

I was talking to my aunt today and for some reason the topic of grammar schools came up. She said that in the 60s and possibly later the mark needed to pass was lower for boys than for girls as it was deemed more important for boys to get into grammar schools and have a career. Is this really true?! I've never come across it before but I was speechless!

Just hearsay, but when I went to grammar school I was told that the passing mark for boys was lower to ensure there were equal numbers of girls and boys in the year group as the girls significantly outperformed the boys. Don't know if it's true though.

My mum said something similar. No idea if it’s true though.

Yes, it's true, I was told that by a sociology A level tutor.

So your lairy teenage boy neighbour got into grammar school despite the fact your teenage daughters grades were better.

Mind was blown.

I’ve heard it too and also that medical schools had set percentages for women to limit the number of women doctors.

I don't know how true that is. I took mine in1960 I think. We had more girls in my class than boys but outside of my school I noticed that more girls passed 11+ than boys.

Yes, it is true. When they designed the 11 plus they planned for 50:50. In reality more girls passed. They put this down to boys developing slower than girls so used positive discrimination.
I was the only girl from my school who passed, 6 boys did.

It was for employment reasons. Obvs.
Don't know when the practice stopped.

Equal opportunities Act 1977, maybe?

Yes LizziesTwin there was a quota system at medical schools restricting the number of female students. Exactly the same as recently in Japan. A friend at university had missed out on a place because of it.
Funny how no man from my generation ever questions whether they've got where they are by positive discrimination.

@Imnobody4 did you hear a podcast about it? I’m trying to remember whether it was More Or Less, Freakanomics or This American Life, those are the main contenders.

Yes, it’s true. I gave a distinct memory of my primary school teacher telling us this in the 70s, and I still remember the feeling of injustice that I felt then. I was in a non-grammar school area, so it didn’t personally affect me, but I’ve always remembered it.

It's not here say. It's fact and I looked into that when I studied my MA in Ed. I sat the 11 plus and failed it.

It was also the case that there was a legacy of more places for boys than girls. Most areas that retain selection are single-sex. I went to secondary education in one, at the only comprehensive in the borough. (Had to pass the Eleven Plus to get into the comp, to ensure a full ability range.)

Part of the inherent unfairness of the postwar grammar system was the number of local grammar school places, sometimes nearly half, sometimes less than a quarter. The pass mark was always magically the one that filled the available places.

It's true.

And it sets off a scary train of thought
What if
Girls aren't just faster developers that will soon be naturally caught up by boys (and overtaken)

What if, girls are just innately more intelligent than boys FOR LIFE, but society crushes them during adolescence and supports boys until boys surpass them despite girls' natural aptitude?

I wonder if we can sue?

It lives on. The move to coursework and modular exams favoured the steadily dilligent girls, whilst Gove's move back to a single final exam, dossing all year with a mad two weeks revision at the end, will shift the advantage back in the direction of boys.

Yes it's true. Partly positive discrimination, partly more boys' grammar schools (endowed in the days when it was unheard of to educate women - actually probably not that long ago). Of course even when women do well academically they just get stuffed in the labour market

Barracker
What if

Judging by the vehement reaction of MRA's and men in general, I would say many females could equal or outpace men intellectually.

Examples of grammar school alumni:
Priti Patel and Dominic Raab.
Something's definitely wrong with the system.
Grammar schools.

Theresa May moved up to what was a grammar but converted to Comp by the time she took her exams. She seems embarrased to be the nation's first comp-kid PM.

Yes I remember my Mum and my aunt talking about this. Appalling but not really surprising.

It is known as..
"The rise of the mediocre male" .

I just made that up.
But it's true.

It may have changed, but the 11 and 12 plus have serious questions to answer across the board. They are, or used to be, the only 'public' exams the process, marking and results of which are completely opaque.

GCSE and A level exams are at least publicly accountable to a certain degree, and one can question grading in detail.

I was told by my family that it was the other way round - what other explanation could there be for my brother failing and me passing

I don’t know about that, but in my area there are other things about 11 plus which seem to be against the girls. In one authority there are more boys grammars and places than girls. In the other authority they have different admissions criteria on distance. Had my daughter been a boy she’d have had s better chance on distance at getting in than as a girl. boys have an inner area by km from school, girls have two areas with priority to the inner one by postcode, followed by places for both outer and inner.

On a similar note, in Italy the judicial career is entered by anonymous exam, and so many more women than men get through that men started asking for male quotas (told by legal academic).