Women's suits.

[placemats]

So I would like a new suit. So far I have this for delectation and delight.

Next: women's suits.

www.next.co.uk/search?w=women%20suits&af=colour:black&isort=score#1_0

Suits search only in Next:

www.next.co.uk/search?w=suits&isort=score&af=#1_253

I typed in suits for Marks and Spencers

I got this:

www.marksandspencer.com/l/women/mands-collection/suits-and-work-dresses-n-bys1h?extid=ps_ggl_UK_G_DSA_Womenswear_&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4s7qBRCzARIsAImcAxZ_LEJtKeVQvCyec7x8yS-z56NC5PnVTiBMOhGAGdQp8s5gC15eGxcaApOhEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Then I typed in women's trouser suits in M&S and got this:

www.marksandspencer.com/l/women/coords?OmnitureRedirect=womens%20trouser%20suits

What is going on here?

Can a woman not buy a decent suit at a good price anymore without looking like she is about to go onto the beach?

And when you do find something, you'll see the jacket's been cut short, to show off your arse.

Fashion has changed a lot since I was a young teenager, how patronising can you get?

I honestly don't see how that is patronising - it's just a fact! Offices have become more casual (for men and women) and even in conservative fields like law and banking, women (thankfully, IMO) aren't expected to wear (often not very nice) suits these days. Many women prefer other options now, so suits just aren't the big seller they used to be.

Separates also make sense because they cater a lot better to our many different shapes (generally less of a 'problem' with male bodies). With suits it's quite difficult to produce something nice at the lower end of high street prices. Most good suits (and this obviously includes men's suits as well) come with a hefty price tag, so it's not surprising that more affordable brands will concentrate on producing things that are cheaper and easier to make since these are also acceptable workwear now.

Just got an email from COS advertising their new work wear (including lots of trousers), there’s plenty of nice stuff and it’s so much more interesting than you typical 90s trouser suit.

I buy a few suits every year and I wear one almost every day.

The sites listed as searched are cheap thus their office attire looks and is cheap. Just like men's suits if you want good quality you have to pay the price for quality. These shops might have decent selections in person but more expensive suits aren't usually big sellers so you tend to find them in a physical retail spaces easier than online.

Unfortunately, a decent suit is going to carry a price tag of at least $300 (unless on sale) - my closet is full of quality suits purchased in-person after trying on and oftentimes tailored post-purchase. I often self-tailor as I am usually able but with more complicated adjustments I take them to the tailor.

There's no substitute for quality textiles, quality fabric, and quality construction.

Most of the supposed workwear for women these days looks like casualwear - like they're going out to hang out with friends or go to the beach or more directly have zero clue what professional wear looks like. I live in a tropical climate and you wouldn't believe the things that women wear to the office thinking they look business casual - their attire is the equivalent of a man in a see-through tank undershirt with basketball shorts i.e. not professional attire regardless of how you try to dress it up. When I tell a member of my staff to wear a suit I mean wear a suit not some stretchy straight legged almost see through "trousers" that are actually yoga pants and I don't mean some see-through spaghetti strap crop with breasts falling out. It isn't about policing their personal style it is about how they present as they represent the company. If your staff looks low-rent the assumption is going to be that the product/service is low rent - which makes negotiations more cumbersome than necessary. And isn't about telling women what to wear it's about expecting women and men to dress appropriately for their role at work.

Placemats - I'm in the US but don't you have like Nordstrom's, Macy's, Dillard's, Saks, or similar there? I really think you need to go in person to try the suits on - to touch the fabrics to ensure you are purchasing quality.

If your staff looks low-rent the assumption is going to be that the product/service is low rent

It all depends what you are paying your staff. Obviously USA. Obviously another patronising reply.

I'm not denying people the choices of what they want to wear all I'm asking for is where can I purchase a good suit like the one I bought in 2010. It was an M&S suit.

I like buying online. I understand textiles. I understand quality and I understand price.

womaninthedark

Oh yes!

all I'm asking for is where can I purchase a good suit like the one I bought in 2010. It was an M&S suit.

I'm not sure why the decline in M&S's quality is a feminist issue?

Putting suits and John Lewis into a search engine brought this up first.

www.johnlewis.com/browse/men/all-mens-suits/_/N-7dnq

However I can have the option of this several options down:

www.johnlewis.com/browse/women/workwear/_/N-6uuq

So then I sorted in women's work wear by trousers and jackets and this is what I got.

www.johnlewis.com/browse/women/workwear/jackets/trousers/_/N-6uuqZ1z13zxqZ1z1405h

I think its down to what you typed in the search box

For Next I found this in "work wear"

www.next.co.uk/shop/gender-women-productaffiliation-tailoring-0#3_2749

And 'smart work wear'

www.next.co.uk/women/tailored-looks

And M&S in 'work wear'

www.marksandspencer.com/l/women/workwear

Have you tried using filters?

The annoying thing is that M&S and Next both carry traditional tailoring in good quality fabrics in their menswear departments. With the £200+ price tag. They do not carry the equivalent in the womenswear department. Or at least not in my local stores.

My local (ish - 20 minutes drive) town has Debenhams, Next and M&S for "quality" clothing stores. The rest are discounters or high fashion or sportswear. Ok said town is not high end...

Debenhams used to be a decent department store of the type you mention. They are now pretty limited and you can spend ££ or £££ on shit fabrics with a more or less fashionable label.

To get a basic wool suit (although I prefer harder wearing trousers thanks to narrow hips, chunky thigh issues) you have to go to specialist places generally found in big cities - like Austin Reed (now defunct), Ede and Ravenscroft (Oxford, London possibly Birmingham/Manchester) or possibly TM Lewin/ Hawes and Curtis (mostly places like Canary Wharf, big London Stations, Bond Street). None of these are in your generic mall, even the big ones like Meadowhall in Sheffield and Merry Hill near Birmingham basically do fast fashion for women while there are a few quality fabric options for men. Most of my recent shopping trips involve looking around, touching 5 or so items, discarding 4 at this point and trying on the 5th to find it has a frill or other flounce ruining an otherwise classic item!

www.johnlewis.com/browse/women/workwear/jackets/trousers/show-in-stock-items-only/_/N-6uuqZ1z13zxqZ1z1405hZ1z0wxdt

From your example

Hide the out of stock items
Filter by size
Filter by colour

Why should I have to use filters? Why can't a woman buy a suit?

Men's suit? Easy. No filters. I may resort to buying a man's suit.

Women's suit? Use filters! Get with the current fashion! Or wear lurid green puke colours teamed with a sober black jacket that you can't ever button. Or a dress.

Filtering by Jackets I can see maybe 5 out of 50 items I'd consider looking out. The rest are much more casual, draped type things and if you don't suit burgundy even more limited.

Had to do emergency clothes shop for DH yesterday- Chinos plus not white shirt for "wedding weekends" stuff other than the actual wedding. Armed with waist size, neck size and a bit of brand knowledge (size up in Topman/Burtons) I managed to buy him more clothes that fit than I have found in shops in the last 4 years (we both hate shopping). Fabric quality was way better in menswear than in womenswear too - in the same shops!

I forgot Debenhams!

Thank you random

You're making a fuss over nothing.

My mum's colleague being sent home from work to change because she was wearing a trouser suit in the 70s = a feminist issue (at the time)

Not getting exactly what you want on an internet search because you weren't specific enough = not a feminist issue. In fact not really an issue at all.

placemats

If your staff looks low-rent the assumption is going to be that the product/service is low rent

I was agreeing with you there - i.e. proper attire for your workplace. I qualified that statement in my post and you cherry-picked one sentence out of that long-ass post because you want to pick at someone.

It all depends what you are paying your staff. Obviously USA. Obviously another patronising reply.

Um I said I'm in the USA - no secret there, no gotcha. I also said that online shops put their lowest quality up but that in-person they may have something better. I wasn't patronizing you at all I was trying to be helpful but it looks like you just want to complain.

And by the way everyone on my staff makes enough to buy a decent suit. Attire should be commensurate with the service/product i.e. a professional licensed plumber in a torn shirt with ass crack hanging out looks low rent the same plumber with a dirty but intact shirt and ass crack covered doesn't look low rent that's the point I'm making.

I'm not denying people the choices of what they want to wear all I'm asking for is where can I purchase a good suit like the one I bought in 2010. It was an M&S suit.

Neither am I... and I don't know M&S but I did AGAIN qualify that they would probably have a better selection in a physical store. I gave you suggestions I even asked you if you had any stores like that where you live.

You said that you bought a suit nine years ago - I buy suits every year so considering your post I thought my perspective may be helpful.

I like buying online. I understand textiles. I understand quality and I understand price.

Great, great, great, and great. I didn't say you didn't know any of those things I was just giving some insight in case this isn't something you do often. I specifically don't buy suits online because I have a very hourglass shape and can't get something online that's made for the masses and have it look appropriate on me (because I'm not flat chested and thin-hipped). Nothing patronizing there just one woman (me) sharing her perspective on suit buying with another woman (you) that appears to be not as versed or experienced as I. Not because I'm smarter or better or cooler but because I buy two+ suits a year and you haven't bought one in a decade.

I'm not being an asshole I was trying to be supportive as I assumed that you are actually looking for insight/help.

But I get it, fuck me for engaging. You are just looking to be bothered and complain and aren't interested in actual solutions that much is readily apparent. Have fun getting mad at things you are making up in your head.

I'm not sure why the decline in M&S's quality is a feminist issue?

its noticeable that this year I've not been able to buy replacement bikini bottom shorts as usual. They've had those for years as I've had to go in the pool with kids for years; they always felt more appropriate. I have a long body so have to have tankinis. They're all high waist high leg this year.

I got an email from H&M today, advertising their autumn collection of suits and workwear.

The cheek of them, they shouid know I only shop there for casual clothes, and I shouldn't have to use filters to see only what I want rather than everything that fits the search terms

Thanks Hobby for being so helpful.

@StopThePlanet

UK stores generally have bog all in store. Half the stores have helpful terminals for you to order online from the store you are standing in...

You’re right that high street quality has tanked over the last decade or so, especially in womenswear. Plus a lot of workplace dress codes in the UK are far more relaxed now - the change is very marked where I work. (From what I can gather it’s less so in the USA). So double whammy in that fewer retailers sell women's tailored suits because there’s less demand, and what they do sell is much poorer quality.

You could try posting on Style and Beauty and asking where women who work in a corporate environment buy tailored suits. Or yes, you could buy a man’s suit (it probably would be better quality) and find a tailor. I’ve had a few men’s jackets/coats altered.

You're making a fuss over nothing

You really are. You're looking for something to be annoyed about.

The comparison with "men's suits" is apples and oranges. Of course there's no damn filters needed for men's suits because other than price they are all basically the same garment.

When I started work in the early 1980s there were loads of mid price ranges for tailored women's skirt or trouser suits- Alexon, Planet, Liz Claiborne, Windsmoor, Country Casuals, Austen Reed, Jaeger and others I can't remember. None of them exist now because presumably women aren't that interested in buying tailored suits. Now on the high street I can't think of anyone who does tailored suits other than Hobbs.

Of course there are still retailers who sell tailored skirts and trousers and jackets all in the same material if that's what you want and it's not difficult to find . You really are making a mountain out of molehill.

Thinking back Alexon et al always sold their "suits" as 2 separately priced items, so you could buy skirt/ trousers in one size and jacket in another or even just one part of the suit- which is never the case for men's suits.

Why is this on FWR?

Because I thought it was a women's issue.

Getting smart for an interview is important. Men can do it easily.

Women not so. And many women do spend time out of the fashion stakes when it comes to having to look after children or taking care of others.

Then when their time shines again what is there to look smart?

Lurid green wide leg trousers, a blouse that doesn't match, teamed with flimsy sandals and a jacket that doesn't button. All for the princely sum of £100 and you probably wouldn't wear any of the items ever again.

This is a woman's issue. I want to look smart. I would like a suit. Is that too much to ask for?

Men's suits are easily bought though.

Oh and my son agrees with me.