Shocked by YHA transgender policy wording

[CliffsofMoherVisitor]

I think this is the first time I have posted in this section. I have quietly read the threads for months as a lurker and become increasingly horrified at the creeping intrusion of males into women's spaces/sports.

What's prompted me to post is stumbling on the YHA's transgender policy. As you may already know (and it has been discussed before here, it is no longer single-sex dormitories - males can self-id as females and sleep in the female dormitory and vice versa. Reading the policy, it sounds like the YHA are trying to do the right thing (they quote the gender reassignment parts of the Equality Act), but it feels like they simply haven't thought it through.

The self-ID part of the policy and all its implications is troubling - self-IDing adult males sleeping in the same room/bunk as female children for example - how do you safeguard against a predator simply lying about their identity? But the line in the policy that upset me most was in relation to the sex-specific exemptions in the Equality Act as follows:

"In certain circumstances we may choose to invoke these exemptions; however, this is not as a rule. An example of these circumstances is people who have been the victims of abuse. In such situations we would work with all parties to provide a solution while still ensuring access everyone has access to our services. We invite people who meet the above criteria to get in touch with us in advance; please contact our customer care department at [email protected]. Individual requests will be dealt with on a case by case basis. Please be aware that these requests can take up to 14 days to process."

Am I correct in my reading that a female victim of abuse has to not only reveal this to the YHA, but do so 14 days in advance of their stay to ensure a female-only space? What if a transgender person arrives without a booking on the day? Is a female meant to go to the desk of the Youth Hostel and reveal their traumatic history to the receptionist? Then the receptionist decides what to do? What if there is no other accommodation available? Some Youth Hostels are in remote places. I find this statement absolutely mind-boggling in its impracticality, and sheer disregard for the experiences of abused women.

I feel so sad, I such good experiences Youth Hostelling as a teenager and a young woman, and I always stayed in YHA due to feeling safer as a single female ("Backpacker" hostels were often mixed sex dormitories). I did this even though YHA was usually more expensive.

I have always had a soft spot for YHA and think (thought) that they did good work for example doing trips for inner city kids to get out and experience the countryside, do hiking etc and of course, allowing a cheap yet safe place for females to stay when travelling. Therefore, even though I am more a Premier Inn type these days, I have always maintained my YHA membership via yearly standing order to support them - going back over 20 years now.

I'm not against trans-gender people using YHA at all - with segregation by sex, not by gender "identity", as it was originally. Perhaps with the provision of a third space open to both sexes? ie Male, Female and Mixed.

So - I think I have to cancel my standing order :( Should I write and tell them why, or will they label any protest "transphobia"?

Link to current YHA policy

Please also have some sympathy for the person who will read the emails containing descriptions of some of the most upsetting trauma imaginable, with little training and almost no clinical supervision. Even people trained to listen to women's trauma experience emotional burn out because of it, and they have strategies and tools they can use to mitigate it.

Our righteous anger should be saved for the people responsible for imposing this rule change on both women and their employees.

Service providers will need to balance the need of the transsexual person for the service and the detriment to them if they are denied access, against the needs of other service users and any detriment that may affect them if the transsexual person has access to the service.

The 'need' of the transsexual person could be met by providing a private room. The detriment to them of not being allowed in the female dormitory is that they won't be validated as a woman and might get a bit upset.

The needs of 'other [female] service users' are for privacy from male people, and their freedom from the risk of sexual violence from males. The detriment to them if the transsexual person has access is that their privacy and safety will be compromised.

The solution is obvious.

Our righteous anger should be saved for the people responsible for imposing this rule change on both women and their employees.

I wonder what sex those people are?

Our righteous anger should be saved for the people responsible for imposing this rule change on both women and their employees.

You’d think that but some people get their kicks from reading that sort of stuff...I wonder who set this policy and if they will have access to customers’ stories of abuse.

And you can get out of town saying that men won't pretend to be trans in order to gain access to women to abuse. Male predators will go to extraordinary lengths in order to have unfettered access to their victim pool, from giving up hours of their time as youth leaders, to spending money on university to enter professions where they will have access to joining religious orders. Simply being able to state "I am a woman" is a positive boon for predatory men, and anyone who can't see that knows fuck all about safeguarding or about how abusers work.

My story of 'abuse' in a hotel rather than a hostel would be very, very mild - I was startled awake in the middle of the night be a previously trusted senior male colleague who had come in through the adjoining door and was leaning over my bed after pulling back the duvet.

That was it. I yelped, he backed off and made some unconvincing excuse about 'just seeking if I was still awake' (yeah right).

I had no previous reason to distrust him, and was unhurt. But the shock and fright at waking to find an unwanted male body looming over me are still vivid 20 years on.

Can I have a single-sex room? Or would he have needed to do more?

RESPONSE FROM YHA TO MY REQUEST

How should I respond? They have just confirmed that my booking is in a female dorm. Not that they won't allow any penises in it?

"Good Afternoon Molly,

Thank you for contacting us regarding a booking at YHA St Briavels Castle.

We have provisionally held a bed for you on the evening of the 1st of September 2019.

We do not require any further details with regard to your own history, we only require details with regard to booking and payment which can be given to us by calling our contact centre on 01629 592700. Please quote the booking reference number 15487/0919/199 when calling.

We can confirm that your booking is in the female dorm and is arranged as per your request.

Thank you again for your request, we hope you are looking forward to your stay.

Regards,

John

Customer Care Co-ordinator

Operations, People and Commercial Directorate

01629 592700

[email protected]

(I realise my name is in there, that is fine).

How can they confirm it's arranged "as per my request"? How on earth would they know of the people who booked so far who has a female body and who has a female gender identity?

Perhaps write to confirm that this is ACTUALLY female.

Show them their own policy? Sounds like the person responding isn't even aware of it!

Yy I'm not at all sure they will have publicised /trained/ advised all their staff in how this all works and what to do etc

Like there was a thread about mixed changing at a council pool, man Friday asked if ok to go in men's. Staff had no idea about gender rules (self id) and got quite arsey with xe/they.

Datun

I hope those who wrote the Code of Practice thought that preventing a grown man from sharing sleeping accommodation with a female child would self evidently be easily justified, and therefore lawful, even if that man identifies as a woman.

However there is a reasonable chance they just didn't think about it.

The worst option is that they thought about it and decided they didn't care about the child's rights in all this. I sincerely hope that is not what happened.

Maybe they outsourced writing the Code of Practice to the same chap who wrote the Scottish Prisons guidelines . The objective and ever so impartial Gordon Pike .....

I'm guessing

They don't actually get many children in same sex accommodation by themselves (although the rules allow for it)

They dont currently get many trans guests

So the policy was from that perspective. Probably imagining adults however many adult women plus 1 trans guest whose having a good go at 'passing'.

Not beefy dave rocking up saying hello I'm a woman I go on with the women and the only other occupant is a 13 yo girl on holiday with her dad, so they are in separate accomodation.

However if they haven't thought about this then they haven't done their risk assessment properly as it should always be, what could possibly go wrong, and mitigate.

Maybe they outsourced writing the Code of Practice to the same chap who wrote the Scottish Prisons guidelines

See the links and images I posted upthread from the code of practice post-consultation report: GIRES, Press For Change and a:gender (civil service TRA org) had major input.

freakshowdown you are amazing .

I cannot believe the YHA have such an appalling policy. Sexual assault victims have enough difficulty with finding the courage to report, then IF THEY DO, have to have to face what is essentially a hostile legal system. Whoever came up with this poorly thought out policy? What kind of guttersnipe wants victims to relive their trauma? Sorry but their right to privacy overrides someone's identity validation.

YHA is an international company, would be an interesting exercise to compare what their policy is from country to country.

freakshowdown

Well done. I agree that you need to get them to confirm in writing that there will be no male-bodied people (i.e. of the biological sex male, regardless of which "gender they identify as") in the female dormitory during the time ypu are staying there. Keep asking the question until they answer properly.

Thanks Pencils - that says all we need to know doesn’t it.
Freakshowdown, I like your style 😀

Looking horribly like corporate capture. Look to the composition of the board of trustees. One works for a diversity consultancy. Another is also on the NUS.

Also looking horribly like a massive failure of due diligence, equality impact assessment, competence and basic common sense.

Do you remember the good old days when grown ups ran organisations? And, you know, actually did their jobs properly? Wistful sigh.

@freakshowdown Well done for trying to tease out the YHA's procedures for your (genuine) circumstances.

Their response to your booking request does not inspire confidence. Sounds to me like John from Customer Care is blissfully unaware of the self-ID complication. I would proceed as @littlecabbage suggests.

In certain circumstances we may choose to invoke these exemptions; however, this is not as a rule. An example of these circumstances is people who have been the victims of abuse. In such situations we would work with all parties to provide a solution while still ensuring access everyone has access to our services. We invite people who meet the above criteria to get in touch with us in advance; please contact our customer care department at [email protected]. Individual requests will be dealt with on a case by case basis. Please be aware that these requests can take up to 14 days to process

I'm sorry but I still can't get over the fact that at least one person - most likely several - thought this was ABSOLUTELY FINE AND REASONABLE TO PUBLISH. It is honestly like something straight out of Alan Partridge.
"Alan, this policy.... some women might complain."
"A load of women talking blathering crap? Nah, that's saaaad. Times have moved on! It's the 90s! TWAW!"
"But Alan, what about women who've... you know, been victims of sex people? Perverts and the like?"
"They're so ruddy bloody brave. OK, they CAN be allowed separate spaces. Hang on though, some of them will take liberties. They must NOT, I repeat NOT, be allowed to take liberties. Have them document in writing any relevant sexual abuse. Fourteen days in advance or it shan't be allowed."

It's still not at all clear what "the above criteria" are. Victims of abuse is an example criterion; what are the others? "Certain circumstances" is absolutely worthless as a sentence in a policy document without specification.

Yes I was wondering about that. Its Kafkaesque. "we won't tell you the criteria, but get in touch and we will assess whether you meet them"