Shocked by YHA transgender policy wording

[CliffsofMoherVisitor]

I think this is the first time I have posted in this section. I have quietly read the threads for months as a lurker and become increasingly horrified at the creeping intrusion of males into women's spaces/sports.

What's prompted me to post is stumbling on the YHA's transgender policy. As you may already know (and it has been discussed before here, it is no longer single-sex dormitories - males can self-id as females and sleep in the female dormitory and vice versa. Reading the policy, it sounds like the YHA are trying to do the right thing (they quote the gender reassignment parts of the Equality Act), but it feels like they simply haven't thought it through.

The self-ID part of the policy and all its implications is troubling - self-IDing adult males sleeping in the same room/bunk as female children for example - how do you safeguard against a predator simply lying about their identity? But the line in the policy that upset me most was in relation to the sex-specific exemptions in the Equality Act as follows:

"In certain circumstances we may choose to invoke these exemptions; however, this is not as a rule. An example of these circumstances is people who have been the victims of abuse. In such situations we would work with all parties to provide a solution while still ensuring access everyone has access to our services. We invite people who meet the above criteria to get in touch with us in advance; please contact our customer care department at [email protected]. Individual requests will be dealt with on a case by case basis. Please be aware that these requests can take up to 14 days to process."

Am I correct in my reading that a female victim of abuse has to not only reveal this to the YHA, but do so 14 days in advance of their stay to ensure a female-only space? What if a transgender person arrives without a booking on the day? Is a female meant to go to the desk of the Youth Hostel and reveal their traumatic history to the receptionist? Then the receptionist decides what to do? What if there is no other accommodation available? Some Youth Hostels are in remote places. I find this statement absolutely mind-boggling in its impracticality, and sheer disregard for the experiences of abused women.

I feel so sad, I such good experiences Youth Hostelling as a teenager and a young woman, and I always stayed in YHA due to feeling safer as a single female ("Backpacker" hostels were often mixed sex dormitories). I did this even though YHA was usually more expensive.

I have always had a soft spot for YHA and think (thought) that they did good work for example doing trips for inner city kids to get out and experience the countryside, do hiking etc and of course, allowing a cheap yet safe place for females to stay when travelling. Therefore, even though I am more a Premier Inn type these days, I have always maintained my YHA membership via yearly standing order to support them - going back over 20 years now.

I'm not against trans-gender people using YHA at all - with segregation by sex, not by gender "identity", as it was originally. Perhaps with the provision of a third space open to both sexes? ie Male, Female and Mixed.

So - I think I have to cancel my standing order :( Should I write and tell them why, or will they label any protest "transphobia"?

Link to current YHA policy

freakshow

This policy is deeply misogynistic. It treats women as inferior to males.

[not talking re genuine TW but predatory males who claim TW status... yes it happens and it is women who suffer]

An adult male says they are a woman - that’s fine! No questions asked! No prior notice needed! Merely by saying those words, they earn the right to the female space.

An adult female wants to book a single sex space - well, did she notify 14 days in advance? Did a man really rape her? Is she telling the truth? Did she suffer enough to “earn” a female only space?

I'm reading the YHA policy and responses as having gone full woke and then they've either had some pushback or (more optimistically) noticed the loopholes that could be exploited and are trying (even if not getting it right) to find a way to keep everyone happy.
I think a few more nudges to show the problems are a good idea. I do think that they are noticing that it's not that simple.

I’m wondering who came up with this policy and who agreed it. We’re there no women in the room? No-one who put their hand up and said ‘you want women to do what???’

It’s so ill thought out, it would require a person arranging a group booking to have to ask friends/family colleagues/students/pupils to disclose. No privacy for women, eh?

I emailed asking for their guidelines so I can determine if the sexual assaults I've suffered will be serious enough to warrant their 'special' treatment. The acknowledgment says I should hear within 15 days. I'll keep you posted.

WOW, they genuinely have accommodated my request:

Dear Molly,

Thank you for your email, we are aware of the content of the policy.

In order to give you the space you have requested in a dormitory room we have blocked all other beds to give you this space alone as you have indicated you are travelling alone.

Should you wish to travel as part of a group, and have a room with only the occupants you wish within it, we would direct you towards a private room which are available in all of our hostels across the network and can be cheaper when sharing costs across all the people staying.

We have agreed to the room at dormitory rates as part of the exemptions within the Equality act on this occasion, in the same way we would for people with a range of reasons including your own.

We trust this is to your satisfaction, if you wish to keep this booking please call our contact centre on 01629 592700. Please quote the booking reference number 15487/0919/199 when calling.

If you don’t wish to continue with your booking please notify us so we can release your booking.

Stupidly I copied the earlier messages with the dates and location so I think I'm going to have to cancel the booking now.

As in, I stupidly posted the booking details earlier in the thread. I don't fancy risking a TRA pile on at St Briavel's on 1st September given how they monitor this site.

What a way to run a business! Blocking out a whole dorm!

As in, I stupidly posted the booking details earlier in the thread. I don't fancy risking a TRA pile on at St Briavel's on 1st September given how they monitor this site.

Or you could just request to change the date?

Silversky, they're a charity so not the same considerations really.

It's extreme that they have to block out a whole dorm as its the only way of guaranteeing single sex. Ie they actually don't feel they can just put one sex in the womens dorm. It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut isn't it but they can't do anything else.

Why not just offer you a private room for same price though? Then they don't have to block out a whole dorm for one person.

It's all just really weird.

The issue is that women not wanting to share intimate etc spaces on a gender self id basis is been framed as, like, the stories about airlines sometimes where ultra religious men won't sit next to women (and it seems to be the women who are told to move).

This narrative totally ignores the reasons for wanting to be apart, the historical context, and there's a hierarchy of oppression judgement where strangely women's issues have apparently been solved and we're all fine.

It's all about the usual things. Reversal, things designed to help oppressed groups being used against them etc.

It's a tricky one.

However all this is so extreme (sex doesnt exist etc) that it's got to stop soon, surely? I'm worried what the 'compromise' will be though.

I actually feel sorry for the YHA here. I think they are genuinely trying their best, but they’ve realized that they can’t please everyone. They can’t offer single-sex rooms as it will lead to too much bad publicity.

I’m not sorry for them. They are acting like fools. Play with fire and you will be burned.

Also - correct me if I've got this wrong - by their genius solution of blocking the dorm so PP can have it to herself, they've now made a situation where let's say hypothetically I also wanted to stay at that location that night, with my dds, the space isn't available, right?

So their idea of accommodating a female traveller who is happy to share with other female travellers, actually then completely unnecessarily excludes other potential female travellers?! Fewer spaces for women?

Because that's totally fair isn't it, & so much more sensible than asking TW to explain their circumstances & be accommodated in a private room/blocked out male dorm so they don't have to share with other blokes.

Ffs. It's always women being buggered about, isn't it? Every sodding time!

Exactly.

They are being ridiculous. They think this is a one off? It absolutely isn't.

As soon as women realise that there is no such thing as single sex, unless you specify and give them your entire history, that's exactly what they will do. The entire charity will go out of business in half an hour.

And they don't need to do any of that. All they need to do is have the fucking courage of their convictions.

Surely it would make more sense for them to give you a private room at dormitory rates, than to block off a whole dormitory?

None of this makes any sense.

(Not freakshowdown, the whole YHA Koolaid.)

Its possible the private rooms at that venue are already booked out.

And I'll bet there are no transwomen anywhere near the place at that time. But, to avoid even having to address the question or have an uncomfortable situation, they come up with a totally bizarre solution. All because strictly applying single sex rules to their accommodation means that some men may be uncomfortable and no-one is prepared to address why and the possible consequences and actually have a discussion that is long overdue.

Oh, how I wish that women had fought against the terminology and that transwomen were women who identified as men and vice versa. That would have kept the conversation on widening the bandwidth of what it means to be a man or a woman. Then the consequences (and conversations) could have been within each sex, rather than the fight back against appropriation that we have now.

Oh, and don't start me on the solution to transwomen on "single sex" wards or in "single sex" accommodation being private rooms for transwomen. Wouldn't we all love a private room in those situations?

In order to give you the space you have requested in a dormitory room we have blocked all other beds to give you this space alone as you have indicated you are travelling alone.

This is utterly bizarre! This policy cannot be sustainable surely - given that many women have been subjected to some form of sexual assualt there is going to be an awful lot of empty beds.

I've just booked on to an event, where the accommodation is two to a room single single gender shared, so I've been very specific I will ONLY share with another natal born woman ie an adult human female, so single sex NOT single gender ie someone male born "identifying" as female.
I'll report back.

In order to give you the space you have requested in a dormitory room we have blocked all other beds to give you this space alone as you have indicated you are travelling alone.

They are flailing so badly. I would love to be a fly on the wall at their meetings.

Will they unblock some of those beds if another woman requests those dates and ALSO discloses status as a survivor of assault?

So we don't have female only. We have females who have been abused (and disclosed that) in dorm 1 and people who identify as women in dorm 2.

Looking at their trustee board it’s majority female and few seem to have any involvement with other charities.

Their plan of blocking out whole dorms is as ill thought out as the original policy. It’s utterly unsustainable and would lead to them bankrupting themselves.

I work in the charity sector and can confirm that they almost certainly didn’t think through the original policy on the basis they thought it wouldn’t ever come up in reality. Tick the box & move on. It makes me so angry that the likes of Stonewall where I’ve no doubt they went to get advice just gives out such total bullshit information. The trustees should of course have understood it more but I bet it was item 17 on a 20 item agenda and had barely any discussion

What an absolute clusterfuck

Some hostels are small and only have 1 female dorm and 1 male dorm. How does this work in that case? Presumably only if nobody else has booked can they book out the room. And if they do, the sexually abused woman becomes the only woman on the premises with the male guests. I can't imagine that would feel very comfortable either.

Also what is to stop someone who is presenting as a trans women claiming also to be an abuse victim and being put in an all female dorm with other abuse victims. It's not like the receptionist will be questioning their identity status when they arrive.

Woah! Blocking out the whole dorm?! Didn't expect that. Are they going to block out the whole dorm for all single female travellers?

God what a mess.

(Side note St Briavels Castle is a fantastic youth hostel, but absolutely not one I would want to stay in by myself 😱😱😱😱 very very spooky)