Shocked by YHA transgender policy wording

[CliffsofMoherVisitor]

I think this is the first time I have posted in this section. I have quietly read the threads for months as a lurker and become increasingly horrified at the creeping intrusion of males into women's spaces/sports.

What's prompted me to post is stumbling on the YHA's transgender policy. As you may already know (and it has been discussed before here, it is no longer single-sex dormitories - males can self-id as females and sleep in the female dormitory and vice versa. Reading the policy, it sounds like the YHA are trying to do the right thing (they quote the gender reassignment parts of the Equality Act), but it feels like they simply haven't thought it through.

The self-ID part of the policy and all its implications is troubling - self-IDing adult males sleeping in the same room/bunk as female children for example - how do you safeguard against a predator simply lying about their identity? But the line in the policy that upset me most was in relation to the sex-specific exemptions in the Equality Act as follows:

"In certain circumstances we may choose to invoke these exemptions; however, this is not as a rule. An example of these circumstances is people who have been the victims of abuse. In such situations we would work with all parties to provide a solution while still ensuring access everyone has access to our services. We invite people who meet the above criteria to get in touch with us in advance; please contact our customer care department at [email protected]. Individual requests will be dealt with on a case by case basis. Please be aware that these requests can take up to 14 days to process."

Am I correct in my reading that a female victim of abuse has to not only reveal this to the YHA, but do so 14 days in advance of their stay to ensure a female-only space? What if a transgender person arrives without a booking on the day? Is a female meant to go to the desk of the Youth Hostel and reveal their traumatic history to the receptionist? Then the receptionist decides what to do? What if there is no other accommodation available? Some Youth Hostels are in remote places. I find this statement absolutely mind-boggling in its impracticality, and sheer disregard for the experiences of abused women.

I feel so sad, I such good experiences Youth Hostelling as a teenager and a young woman, and I always stayed in YHA due to feeling safer as a single female ("Backpacker" hostels were often mixed sex dormitories). I did this even though YHA was usually more expensive.

I have always had a soft spot for YHA and think (thought) that they did good work for example doing trips for inner city kids to get out and experience the countryside, do hiking etc and of course, allowing a cheap yet safe place for females to stay when travelling. Therefore, even though I am more a Premier Inn type these days, I have always maintained my YHA membership via yearly standing order to support them - going back over 20 years now.

I'm not against trans-gender people using YHA at all - with segregation by sex, not by gender "identity", as it was originally. Perhaps with the provision of a third space open to both sexes? ie Male, Female and Mixed.

So - I think I have to cancel my standing order :( Should I write and tell them why, or will they label any protest "transphobia"?

Link to current YHA policy

Oh yes, and I’ve also been sexually abused as a teenager and an adult but I do not wish to disclose this to random members of YHA staff. I too will be writing to complain.

stuck yes but 98-99% of sexual offences are committed by male people. Mixed sex dorms are fine for those who want them.

We’re talking here about the odd of female-only dorms.

stucknoue, I don't think there are hordes of predatory men who will specifically go to youth hostels to abuse women. I do think opportunism is to be risk managed, though.

As if anyone in the YHA is going to challenge anyone, especially in this climate. By anyone, I mean men. Because, obviously, they expect women to re-live their trauma and then decide whether they think it's bad enough. Actually, I think they'll say they are full because they will STILL not face telling a transwoman that they have to go in the correct dorm for their sex.

Also I think this “exceptions only for the sexually abused!” Policy is wrong, it stigmatises and others women who have been abused.

It implies that the only valid reason for wanting female-only space is because of past trauma. And that anyone is wrong and unacceptable for feeling that way.

This is WRONG. They are trying to normalise the erosion of boundaries. To say that you must earn” the right to boundaries, in this case by having experienced a man rape you.

“odd of” should have been “loss of”

Freakshow, thanks for doing this and having the courage to be open about your experience. But I really dislike the premise that you have to have a reason (and my goodness what a reason) to be able to have privacy from males. All women should be able to have privacy from males if they wish without having to give a reason and without being made to pay extra for that privacy.

Sorry 2B. Cross posted

None of this makes sense. Quite apart from the women angle, this policy clearly excludes women of faiths who are not permitted by their faith to share mixed sex accommodation. I don't understand how any of this gets signed off in the first place.

There is no way in hell that I am going to tell a stranger that I was attacked. They should be publicly shamed for this policy.

The level of proof required - on both sides - would be interesting to see.

What's to stop every female simply saying, yes, I've been abused in the past and I require single sex accommodation. How can they prove she hasn't if she lies fraudulently seeks access to single sex spaces?

A few of the trustees seem to have a 'diversity' background so potentially this is being pushed unthinkingly by them as the 'new' tick box'

Unforgivable that they've so quickly dropped more 'core' diversity audiences if so

Good grief there is so much wrong with this. It makes me furious. Basically girls and women can either be a) harassed, attacked or raped or b) stay at home. If they can’t afford alternative accommodation or don’t have a home, tough shit. It’s disgusting and why should male capitalist individualism be allowed to put women at risk like this?

I (luckily) don’t have a hostel attack to relate but using Youth Hostels is how I was able to do any UK or international travel as a young person with very little money and at an age where sexual harassment was constant daily experience (in UK and abroad). I couldn’t afford hotels or to book private rooms and not all hostels have private rooms anyhow. I remember the horror of booking into a dorm naively at a private backpacker hostel (not a youth hostel, because Youth Hostel was fully booked) and not even thinking to ask if it was single sex. We arrived late after dark and nobody else was in the dorm apart from a few sleeping women, then came back after going out to find food and discovered blokes undressing and in bed in the dorm. Checked with management- it’s mixed sex accommodation and no single sex spaces were provided. I remember feeling completely trapped.

My girlfriend and I were terrified and hardly slept all night and felt really scared and vulnerable. We weren’t attacked that stay, but had to have our guard up absolutely constantly, be together in a pair for safety constantly, shut down and avoid normal social chat with anyone in case it was interpreted wrong. it made dressing, washing, toileting and sleeping- things we had equally paid our small amount of local currency to do- just as much as those male guests had paid- absolutely fraught with stress and fear. By definition backpackers using hostels do not have alternative accommodation easily available because they have no money. If I had travelled alone I dread to think of it. The blokes in the dorm didn’t have to worry about any of this stuff. Statistically they had a vanishingly low likelihood of being assaulted or raped compared to any woman in a mixed sleeping space, but if they had- they would not have been blamed for being too poor or too careless or too stupid or too young or too naive or too friendly as to have slept in a mixed space in the first place. I was well aware that by being there (not through choice once discovered) I was taking on a massive burden that the young lads chatting and making new friends and having run around me had absolutely no idea about how they were contributing to, or if they had an inkling, did not care. It wasn’t an option to find anywhere else at that hour, in the dark, with no idea where we were.

YHA should be prominently publishing this legal advice they have received freely on their website, if they changed policy on this basis, so actual lawyers can have a proper look at the legality of it. How dare they exclude women and anyone on a low income from their services? I’m really shocked, it goes against their core purpose surely. How does this sit with their legal charitable aims? What were their Trustees thinking when they Ok’ed this?

I would like them to publish their impact assessment and the relevant Board meeting minutes, so we can see their discussion on this and understand why they have chucked normal safeguarding practice out of the window. (Which their guests quite reasonably will still expect to find in a YHA dorm.)

Because nothing has changed in terms of the threat to girls and women, regardless of whatever legal advice the YHA have been lobbied with and capitulated to.

Thank you freakshow, please update us when you get a response.

Our range of dormitory and private accommodation provides an inclusive environment for all, which is free from discrimination, harassment or victimisation.

Just because you say something it doesn't make it true.

Sorry to hear of your experiences freakshowdown. Will be very interested to hear what the YHA say, although I'm not hopeful it will be anything but waffly, inaccurate nonsense about the Equality Act.

freakshow thank you and please look after yourself.

Great minds, Mamello

If we are unsure if a guest has picked shared accommodation appropriate to their gender identity, we may ask if they have made the decision to enter the process of gender reassignment.

What happened to privacy? In amy case, isn't it transphobic to ask this?

In rare instances we may need to make changes to a booking; however, we will do everything we can to provide suitable alternative accommodation in such circumstances.

Oh, that's good. So steps will be taken to protect women from men who may be taking advantage of self ID to prey upon them. (Though of course This Never Happens.)

This is to ensure that we protect genuine transgender guests from those fraudulently seeking to gain access to shared spaces.

Oh.

There is no way in hell that I am going to tell a stranger that I was attacked. They should be publicly shamed for this policy

I feel exactly the opposite, I would be more than happy to recount in all its traumatic detail my sexual assaults to whoever it was who made up this policy!

Due to the nature of dormitory accommodation, If you are male bodied but identify as female or female bodied but identify as Male we will endeavour to provide you with a separate room where possible. Please notify staff 14 days before your arrival. We may refuse you the right to stay in a mixed dorm for safeguarding reasons.

There, I’ve re written their policy for them. that’ll be £43,0000 please.

Thank you freakshow! I'm so appalled it has come to this!

stucknoue I was equally appalled by your attitude of ^I'm alright Jack' .

Firstly, openly mixed sex dorms are an entirely different situation to male bodied people in women only dorms / showers etc.

I'm not belittling your concerns but I don't think predatory males are going to be stalking the hostels of Britain pretending to be trans gender

Well, you clearly are belittling the OP'S (many others') concerns.

The argument is not that the vast majority of men are predatory sex offenders, but that the vast majority of sexual offenses are committed by men - however they 'identify'

Dangerous man can not be identified on sight, so the sensible solution has been to segreate by sex to.protect women and girls.

The YHA has just taken that safeguard away.

I'm actually more comfortable with my dd staying with her boyfriend in the bunk below. but you don't give a shit about other people's daughters? Nice.

Given the fact that women are much more likely to be using the facility than transgender people (because comparatively there are few) yet women are the ones who have to give up their right to dignity and privacy, it’s clear what sort of position this has come from. YHA, as one of your users I’m so upset to see such misogyny. The very idea that women should have to bring up past sexual abuse is so ludicrous I’d actually worry about the mental state of the person who came up with this policy.

Some of the sexual abuse I suffered as a teenager actually took place in a youth hostel. It was a man I already knew and the place was booked out by the group we were with. He abused me in an empty dorm late at night.

I can’t stay in a mixed dorm for this reason, among others.

The policy was written by Eleanor Butterfield, Accessibility Project Co-ordinator at YHA, England & Wales. She's on Twitter @eleanor_yha

Her Twitter is all very 'aren't we wonderful?' so a few comments from Mumsnetters might not go amiss.

Maybe we need to be a bit more like Kiwifarms by archiving evidence of those responsible for this policy if/when things go wrong. With that in mind, here's a screenshot of the current YHA trustees, so they can be held to account if necessary.

And as a searchable list:

Margaret Hart (Chair)
Ian Maginnis
Cathryn Hayhurst
Marcus Holborn (Vice Chair)
Barbara Kasumu
Josie Murray
Chris Roberts
Fiona Steggles
Graham Turnock
Simon Reeve
Hannah Paterson
Robert Varley
Hayley Barnard
Emma Bradley