Val McDermid's Top 10 LGBTQ writers: Guardian

[thatdamnwoman]

Sad to see Val McDermid involved in this. I had hoped she'd be GC.

www.theguardian.com/books/2019/aug/10/the-word-is-out-val-mcdermid-selects-britains-10-most-outstanding-lgbtq-writers

I checked out a number of the clicky bio links in the article. Some of them in their biographies don't mention being lesbian or gay or whatever. Keith Jarrett's link instructs us to 'read between the lines' so I have no idea what his apparently queer identity is about. Is he trans? There are at two TW authors explicitly 'out' and one of them has even written a book about their 'transgender journey'. Brave and stunning, I presume.

It's left me wondering whether it's more acceptable to be trans or 'queer' than it is to be openly lesbian or gay. And saddened that an older, intelligent butch dyke would be prepared to go along with the exercise. LGB (sexuality) isn't the same as gender identity. Conflating the two helps make the lesbians disappear.

Oh Val. If only you'd suggested 'ten dykes to watch out for'...

Also in The Guardian today, 'the Guide' supplement headlines 'How Britain fell in love with drag'.
This was news to me as I thought it had been around a long time anyway but I digress.
It's worth a read. There is a hint that the drag scene (mostly gay men dressing as pastiche women for entertainment) is not 100% on board with how trans fits in with this.
RuPaul is quoted (but told off) for saying "the dichotomy of the trans movement versus the drag movement" and to quote the Guardian "as though trans people are pandering to gender norms, while drag is inherently subversive"
The tone of the article is very much well, that's how it used to be (but is old hat now) but new drag is much more nuanced, innovative and fresh...

I imagine the piece wanted T writers though. If Val had just suggested lesbians they would have asked someone else.

For those who would rather support female writers, they did a list of female crime writers a little while ago.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2019/may/16/50-great-thrillers-by-women-agatha-christie-gillian-flynn-val-mcdermid

I was happy to see VM's a place of execution listed by two separate authors - it's one of my favourites.

On a different tack I've also just listened to Ben Elton's Identity Crisis. He satirises the current debate brilliantly. I may have also laughed out loud at the not-very-well-disguised-politicians; Bunter Jolly, Guppy Toad & Plantagenet Greased-Hogg.

Women defining themselves as 'lesbian' has become distasteful and inappropriate, and a statement of wrongthink political values. Properly you should refer to yourself as 'queer' which is vague and doesn't imply you have any nasty habits like a sex based orientation. Do notice the recent newspaper reports about lesbian couples being attacked where the papers carefully avoided any use of the word 'lesbian'.

Men defining themselves as lesbian however are absolutely brave and stunning. Essentially the word has been made men-only in the batshit world where the Guardian and Stonewall live.

I imagine the piece wanted T writers though. If Val had just suggested lesbians they would have asked someone else.

My point is that I would have hoped that she'd have said no to the commission. She had no need to do it, she's loaded, she's made her name. The fact that she went along with it disappoints me.

@Michelleoftheresistance, if you read the article you'll see that her list was compiled at the request of the National Centre for Writing and the British Council and the Guardian are only reporting it.

Well I have no issue with pieces that list trans authors or whatever- it’s the notion that biological sex never matter that I have a problem with. Maybe Val feels the same. I’d be more annoyed if she had included a load of trans authors in a piece about women authors. This list was specifically about trans and queer and the authors fit that bill.

Okay. As a lesbian it matters to me that I can't identify the genuine lesbians whom I might be interested in reading [by genuine lesbians, I mean the cunty kind] and it infuriates me that sexuality and gender are yet again being muddled. I have nothing in common with gender ideologists. They don't belong with the LGB.

Sure. I can see that but she was asked to compile a list of authors that fell into the LGBTQ heading and she did. The heading includes trans and queer people too. I would be more disappointed if she was highlighting just lesbians or just women and she included trans or non-binary people in that list. Who knows what she actually thinks about gender. You can be gender-critical and acknowledge that there are transgender authors out there that are worth reading.

Kind of missing the point. I don't think a GC lesbian would have gone along with the request. I wouldn't because I don't acknowledge LGB being linked in any way with T and Q – because I know how T and Q are erasing and silencing the LGB. Hence my disappointment in her.

Okay, fair enough.

so do we have a breakdown? Before clicking I get myself there would be more TW than Lesbians.

I think it's very difficult to tell because a couple of the women I looked up don't seem to have anything about their sexuality in their biographies – so could be L or B or T or whatever Q stands for these days.

One of the female writers mentioned that she had a wife, but that was well hidden in her biography. She was the only one who I could establish as lesbian and I think there are at least two TWs, could be more. Andrew McMillan's biography on his own webpage doesn't mention his sexuality at all. Admittedly I didn't follow them all through, but I checked out 6 or 7.

I don't know what these individual authors write about, whether they write about LGB issues or not. If not, and if they aren't identifying themselves as LGB on their web pages and Twitter etc, is it unreasonable to ask what they're doing on the list?

I grew up clinging to people like Jeanette Winterson who not only wrote about lesbian sexuality but was out in public. Or McDermid herself, though I've never been a fan of her work. Too violent for me.

My issue is about lesbian visibility in particular, but LGB visibility too. If men and women who are attracted to their own sex (a real, lived sex-based phenomenon) are going to become invisible among a throng of competing fashion belief-isms (because all the dozens of genders currently available are all just subjective beliefs and can change when something new comes along) then we might as well be back in the closet.

They are all LGBTQ which is what the list is. Surely the deciding factor should be on quality of writing when deciding what to read. Not the sexual orientation of the writer.

Or McDermid herself, though I've never been a fan of her work. Too violent for me.

I’m not keen on her later stuff but you might like her books from the early days. Look for the Lindsay Gordon or Kate Brannigan sets.

Well I'm feeling much better that they'd sold out of the guardian and I had to buy the times for child free afternoon.

Though I love the articles they've been publishing on all this, I'm not keen on the rest of it. And vice versa if that makes sense!

Juno Dawson and Juliette Jacques are trans

I don't have much time for Val McDermid. She's a greatest living Scotsperson (TM) and the violence in her books is vile

One of her choices is Mary Paulson-Ellis who wrote the appalling Eleanor Oliphant is Completely Fine

It's not appalling because of violence but it's simply badly plotted, predictable drivel.

Sorry it was The Other Mrs Walker which
Mary Paulson-Ellis wrote. It is dreadful - even worse than Eleanor Oliphant (Eleanor Oliphant was by Gail Honeyman )

Always loathed her, apart from the disgust I feel at someone making a living out of pornographic violence against women and children, she's a bloody awful writer.

So I never take any notice of anything she pronounces on and avoid any programmes she takes part in. She represents no one.

Trans issue aside, what are "queer people" anyway? Surely LGB covers everyone that isn't straight? I've seen gay and lesbian now recategorised as "queer" and I think okay, reclaiming an old slur but when Q gets tacked on to the LGB and the T it seems tautologous. Having blue hair isn't actually a sexuality!

What about Patrick Gale? One of the greatest writers in the UK in my opinion.

Presumably "queer" includes the Pup people who may well be c*s and heterosexual?

See thread about Welsh Pride March.

All the above. Now do you understand why as a lesbian I'm dismayed? Lumped in with goodness knows what.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/lifestyle-2-15039/val-mcdermid-crime-and-reason-1-1089725/amp

Val McDermid has done an interesting radio programme on lesbian literature which is discussed in this article. Not sure if there is a podcast of it.

I do understand dismay but it has been LGBT for 15+ years so just because someone uses that term or includes trans people in it doesn’t say anything really about how they view gender or whether they can be described as gender critical. Val has described herself as a radical feminist, which is promising.