When did they stop using the words transsexual and transvestite?

[AnotherAdultHumanFemale]

I noticed that a key part of their movement is language. Transexuals and transvestites have been around for years but I don't ever remember anyone, including themselves, insisting that they literally were women.

These are the exact same men, except now everyone is insisting that they literally are women.

They have basically rebranded themselves, cleverly, with language being a key part of this, because I can't imagine anyone shouting on twitter or on pride marches 'transvestites are women and anyone who disagrees is a hateful vestphobic bigot!'

It seems they knew nobody would be fooled by that so they changed both transsexual and transvestite into 'transwoman' to gain sympathy and then use that sympathy to drive their ideology forward.

There’s a business technique for takeovers that requires putting in infrastructure without announcing it, then by the time anyone becomes aware, it’s almost too late for anyone to do anything, and this seems to be the situation

There is a similar approach I've seen in religious communities where there is a desire for some to make a change but it's controversial. What they do is say that the change will be made, but it will not be required and accommodation will be made for people or groups who did not want the change. Then you work very hard to push through as many concrete instances related to the change as possible, and try and limit the influence of the people who don't like the change. After about 10 years you can talk about the new idea as one that is established and agreed upon by everyone, and start talking about the old idea as being a minority, bigoted, on the wrong side of history and so on.

^ The important thing is to let trans people, as the all-too-often marginalised minority being spoken about, lead the discussion and dictate the terms in which they are spoken about.
This is my favourite bit, so presumably natal women get to dictate the term woman?^

Good lord, no. Women, being in this matter the marginalised majority, aren't allowed a say at all.

Thanks @stucknoue, I'll have Sweet Transvestite stuck in my head for the next 2 days. Although, that's a point isn't it? He was called Frank'N'Furter, the insinuation being that he kept his.
I think transvestite used to mean dressed in clothes of the other sex. Transsexual used to mean changing to try to be that sex as much as possible. Its better than simply trying to steal "woman".

I remember being told to use trans as a descriptor back in 2010, so it's been going a while.

The important thing is to let trans people, as the all-too-often marginalised minority being spoken about, lead the discussion and dictate the terms in which they are spoken about.

And yet women, oppressed and silenced globally for millennia, aren't allowed to dictate the terms in which we are spoken about. The whole thing is nonsensical.

As for the froth that bubbled over on Twatter when many feminists identified as genderfree - well, it was preposterous. Made it clear that everyone else's identity is sacrosanct except for us disobedient women.

I remember my original perception of it back then. We, in the LGB, (who'd only just been told by our orgs that we were now LGBT) we're then told that the "T" didn't stand for Transsexual anymore, that now it's for Transgender, and that was so it could include the transvestites and other people who weren't necessarily full-on transsexual but nevertheless marginalised for transgression gendery type stuff kind of thing.

Back then, from within LGB at least, we saw the T as the umbrella term. And although transsexuals and transvestites both often referred to themselves [in the scene in Australia at least] as "trannies" in casual convo, they were very keen to retain their own identity separate from the other. Transsexuals didn't want their identity minimised by being related to costume of fetish. And Transvestites were typically even more defensive, instantly correct any confusion with comments like "HA! No! I don't want to be a woman or think I'm a woman.trapped in a man body!! I just like wearing women's clothes to spice things up. I'm not like those weirdos haha".

So it's galling to see the same homophobic, actually transphobic ("transsexualphobic"?) demographic now clinging to the transsexual identity for dear life to use as their passport in to women's locker rooms.

I thought it was the other way round. While they may not want 'trans', alone, they usually want 'trans woman' as it tries to imply they're a subset of women (cf 'black woman') rather than 'transwoman' as a separate classification.

I was educated by them that they preferred transwoman. But they are known to make it up as they go along so some might prefer trans woman

The line about transsexual/transvestite/woman/lesbian all being outdated medical terms - with the clear hint that nice, up to date, right thinking people don't use them - was a big step towards enabling the colonisation of them.

If you fog the term, redefine it, talk a lot about progress and inclusivity, you persuade that the meaning of the term can be reasonably adapted to be 'inclusive'.

Note who exactly it includes. Note too that transsexual people/women/ lesbians did not generate these terms and redefinitions from within their own communities and did not reach a point of desperately wanting and seeking to get new blood into their groups for their own reasons. These terms were forcibly revised and repurposed from outside. Those within those redefined communities have had the usual death threats/rape threats/police visits/harassment for non compliance or speaking out against the imposed new order. This in itself shows that a less powerful group has been taken over by a more powerful group.

The library of appropriated words to enable the agenda goes on and on and on. (And on.)

Thanks everyone, very interesting replies.

Pota2 I used anorexia as an example because it is a medical condition, and there is decades of evidence to show that transsexualism is a medical condition too. But I agree that it is exactly the same as if white people started to 'identify as black' and call actual black people cis-black and people who wanted to be black trans-black and that probably makes a better analogy. It also highlights the absolute cruel, narcissistic audacity of it. For white people to start identifying as black, using language that the black community have to describe their history and their life experiences, start dictating what black people are and are not allowed to talk about and start demanding that funding go towards 'trans-black' people is as horrific as what is currently happening to women.

Regulatory Capture is really interesting, thanks MrSnippyPants. It describes what has happened exactly and it's chilling.

Yes, I feel sorry for the old school transexuals who have lived peacefully for years amongst women mainly because they never insisted they were actually women and they never, from what I can tell, wanted to remove women's rights.

The only reason to peddle the narrative that "transsexual" is outdated and has been replaced by "transgender", lies in distracting from the fact that these two do not denote the same thing at all.

Transsexuals have an issue with their sexed bodies, typically are transmed at a minimum and those whose sex dysphoria is seriously distressing may decide to go all the way to genital surgery.

Complication and failure as well as dissatisfaction rates are high enough to make this a risky endeavour and I would not want anyone to feel compelled to make irreversible changes to their bodies because society expects it. But many transsexuals do feel compelled by their sex dysphoria to do so.

That's why, for the general public, "transwoman" continues to be associated with a (usually) post-op transsexual.

That's who the GRA was created for. Those who had permanently and meaningfully transitioned.

But that word won't do when you want the protections afforded to transsexuals without undergoing a medical process. When you love your body just as it is.

The word is not outdated, because it denotes a specific person presenting with a precisely delineated condition whereas "transgender" includes a whole range of other persons. Try Google Scholar to see just how much research continues to be published using the term. It returns over 15,000 results in the last three and a half years in English alone.

I agree Charlie, I keep seeing people say online 'it's only a tiny minority of extremely vulnerable people,' tutting at women for 'being mean to the tiny vulnerable minority.'

They have no idea that the term transwoman is an umbrella term for cross dressers, transvestites as well as the transexuals they think it refers to and their ignorance is contributing to the destruction of women's rights and safe spaces.

Sakura it’s actually the other way around. They don’t mind the word trans, but they want the word woman to stand separate so that it spins like e.g. ‘white woman’ or ‘tall woman’. Apparently transwoman suggests that the person is not the same as a real woman (go figure....)

But then again India Willoughby now thinks they are cis so maybe the next stage is that nobody is allowed to mention transness.

I always write trans woman to annoy them and it's one of the things you can't get banned for as far as I know

I think that's more likely to annoy feminists than trans people.
As pp have said, TRAs tend to insist on trans woman / trans man as it implies the trans bit is an adjective to describe the type of woman or man.
Transwoman / transman are nouns of their own, meaning different things completely to woman / man.

I never put the space between.

In the Stonewall Champion School teaching material, children are taught that 'transsexual' is an old fashioned term now.

Stonewall just makes up the rules as it goes along, ignoring and denigrating the actual transsexuals that it claims to represent.

And it can't even spell transsexual correctly in its own teaching material either.

The word transexual had to change to transgender, so it could be used to describe children. The whole concept of a trans child is utter bollocks-there are just adults telling children they are trans.....it’s manufactured BS so pharmaceutical companies can make billions.

It really should be illegal to prevent a child from going through a natural puberty.

I agree Happydappy. When I found out that puberty blockers even existed and the surgery route they are sending these children on, I actually vomited. I couldn't believe what I was reading, it was like being in a nightmare I couldn't wake up from.

When predators wanted to act out their fetishes but still keep a penis and be allowed in women’s spaces.