Should we campaign for even more women only spaces

[Trexical]

I've been lucky enough to spend the hottest day of the year at Hampstead womens pond in London and found myself queuing for well over an hour to get in.
In spite of there being a huge expanse of space on hampstead heath with many accessing the mixed and general ponds only the ladies pond had excessive queues and it highlighted just how in demand women only spaces were.
The atmosphere inside was incredible..women of all ethnicities, religions and ages freely able to walk around semi nude without fear of being photographed or gawped at.

I have rarely felt so at peace in a mass crowd but thought how many similar spaces are there in the uk for those who don't live in london and is this something worth campaigning for?

In UK, let's campaign to make all the Exceptions written in the Equality Act 2010 mandatory provision first and foremost

Yes ^

I've been day dreaming about setting up a women's only club.

How would it be possible to verify natal sex, do you think? (Given that the UKGov retroactively falsify birth certificates.)

Would it be permissible for a private members club to include a rule, which all members must sign up to, along the lines of 'as a member you agree to chromosome testing upon request of the leadership'?

I have no idea if private members clubs could do such a thing but surely they have more leeway than public services for example?

I've been day dreaming about setting up a women's only club.

Do you mean a physical club or an association? I belong to a women's association and only women are members. Surely there are lots of groups like that?

Was reading the other day about the explosion of women in the workplace in Saudi Arabia and how this is being accommodated by the building and development of women only offices, health centres, factories etc.

This is a tricky one. On one hand we are now discussing the extension of female only spaces, services, products...like a parallel society - where women live more and more separately from men and male society.

The common denominator here is the realisation of the biological, physical, & 'other' differences between men and women, and how it is often in the best interests of women, as well as men, to have separate spaces where women can relax and feel safe, and where men can also enjoy male society.

Obviously in Saudi Arabia this sort of single sex solution is originating from a very different angle, but the net effect is pretty much the same.

How do societies manage the tensions and conflicts inherent in the reality of two sexes?

Yes that might work @ArnoldWhatshisknickers

I mean like a physical members/country club @timeforakinderworld . If I ever had sufficient funds.

I wonder whether crowdfunding could get close?

"Obviously in Saudi Arabia this sort of single sex solution is originating from a very different angle, but the net effect is pretty much the same."

not really. Think about a lockable door. If you choose to pass through and lock it behind you, then you have security and control who comes in. If someone else makes you go in and locks it behind you, then you are in a prison. The net effect isn't really the same.

Think about a lockable door. If you choose to pass through and lock it behind you, then you have security and control who comes in. If someone else makes you go in and locks it behind you, then you are in a prison.

^^ what a good way of putting it.

The net effect isn't really the same

But the net effect is a recognition of the reality of two sexes, and the ensuing recognition of the necessity and desirability for single sex spaces.

What I'm getting at is that the whole TRA agenda has brought us, as women, back to the basics of recognising biological and bodily difference - and all that implies.

..also for those Saudi women it must seem and feel like some kind of liberation......to be able to work in occupations outside of the home.

There is a Womyn's Land in west Wales. I don't know how appropriate it would be to give any further details on a public message board.

Some really interesting replies . I would really like to know if it would be illegal to set up a natal women's social directory or would it never get off the ground for being discriminatory?

Trexical - my understanding is that a private event could have any restrictions the organiser wanted (ie a family gathering or group holiday), but once I advertise it / accept applications from the public, it is not ‘private’ any more and EA applies. So if I ran my craft group as invitation only it’s probably be fine, but if I wanted to reach out to women outside my immediate social circle, I fall under EA and have to be able to rationale applying an exemption, which could be open to challenge.

Happy to be corrected!

There's no difficulty at all as far as I'm aware of setting up informal social groups and offering private events. Problems occur once you go public. So organising a women's night at a local club was fine when we said it was a private party and invited friends and friends of friends who all understood it was for XX women only. But when we organised and advertised a women's night publicly the venue got nervous ('Equal opportunities: surely any public event should be open to everyone?) and of course someone wanted to bring transwomen so they could enjoy a safe night out among women. We ended up cancelling the event because we were just too weary to argue.

How frustrating. And yes you are right, damned, I'm pretty sure the details for that land are not for public media reveal.

Any transgender individual or any man attempting to gain access would do so at their peril. Those women I know who have lived there or used the land there are not to be trifled with.

There are so many publicly advertised women-only events coming up for Eid where I am.
They are taking place.
Within community organising circles away from the woke crowd, this gender identity stuff is just noise.

Good point SuperLoud - although it doesn’t mean they’re safe from legal abuses. I imagine the women currently being dragged through the bollock waxing tribunal in Canada never imagined they’d be in that position as they provide services to women.

Indeed!

I kept meaning to post on this thread and forgetting.

Women-only spaces are wonderful and I've come to appreciate them more as I've gotten older. In my twenties I wasn't bothered about them, I was more concerned with 'equality'. Now in my thirties I love women-only space and gravitate towards them. I'd much rather spend time with women than men. I'm fine with individual men but there's just something about being around only women which is so refreshing and liberating.

Personally, I have no problem with men-only spaces either. Sometimes people want to be with men-only or women-only. Male-only choirs have a particular sound for example. There was that guy from Aberdeen who set up a group for men to talk about suicide, who was harassed and sent death threats if I recall correctly. That was horrible. The only male-only clubs I have a problem with are those Gentlemen's Clubs like the Presidents Club Charity because they maintain male power.

With regards to the Equality Act it is lawful to have women-only (natal women) spaces. I think we are going to need to get tough about this. The exemptions are there and it is lawful to use them and by refusing to use them as in @thatdamnedwoman case organisations could be in breach of the Equality Act. They could be discriminating on the basis of sex.

The Equality Act doesn't apply at all to groups which have less than 25 members.

Also, I think we will need to start getting more creative. Organise women-only discos, events etc but make them private. Invite friends of friends, make sure it's all through word of mouth, secret groups etc.

I also agree that the single-sex exemptions in the Equality Act should be mandatory and organisations should have to opt out.

@TirisfalPumpkin

I have long wanted to set up a female only crafts society but I cannot afford to defend myself in court if a ‘woman’ with a penis wants to join and won’t take no for an answer. They litigate for funzies, look at JY and the flying lawyer.

This may be helpful here:

"A WOMEN-ONLY ASSOCIATION

Women can lawfully associate together in different ways. A formal association is only covered by the Equality Act if it has more than 25 members and a membership system involving a process of selection and rules. If a group has fewer than 25 members, or doesn’t have rules, the group isn’t affected by the Act, so for example you can run a book group or have a private party however you like. A group of women wanting to come together informally at a private gathering is not in breach of the Equality Act if they decide to turn away men."

from: www.aroomofourown.org/a-uk-guide-for-non-lawyers-about-protecting-women-only-spaces-june-2016/

Justhadathought

I've had similar thoughts to you about the idea of the recognition of the differences between the sexes and the creation of separate spaces. I think it's an interesting topic to consider.

I've had similar thoughts to you about the idea of the recognition of the differences between the sexes and the creation of separate spaces. I think it's an interesting topic to consider

In the past single sex pursuits and spaces were far more common...something we've moved away from in the pursuit of equality and in the recognition of individuality regardless of biological sex. And much of that has been good and progressive. But perhaps we now need to reflect further...the TRA agenda having forced this on us.

And single sex secondary schools used to be pretty common - but many now seem to have a reflexive dislike of them......Personally, having attended an all girl secondary school, myself I'd choose, if that choice was available, for my granddaughter too.

Jacky - thank you, that is helpful. Seems the definition of a 'private' gathering is a bit broader than I thought, which is good - although the implication that a formal society with 25+ members cannot turn away men (presumably without invoking an exception) is a bit concerning.

I've been thinking about this too, I think this movement will create a movement of women only spaces that are run privately. How wonderful. Women only spaces have been invaluable to me the past few years and it's unbelievable that they are now being dismantled.

It even made me think about signing up to a church, when I' m totally non religious, simply because churches tend to understand that the sexes often like to have single sex groups for crafts, coffee mornings etc.

The Pussy Church of Modern Witchcraft is women only and has used religious status in order to do this. I'm not so keen on the name but I like the way they have recognised a need for women only spaces and events.