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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dr Webberly responds...

25 replies

IStillMissBlockbuster · 24/07/2019 07:09

medium.com/@helenwebberley/dear-kirsty-entwistle-789f81ddd06c

OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 24/07/2019 07:20

A few assumptions made and a few lies (children don't need medical intervention, then why did you prescribe puberty blockers to an 11/12year old?) and when she mentions children committing suicide she should remember her own patient who did just that, after transistioning. Would love to see this covered by BBC given their current stance...

CuriousaboutSamphire · 24/07/2019 07:20

negate the existence of gender incongruent people, why do TRAs always feel the need to trot this one out? Do they think it is the ultimate Gotcha! ?

If you ignore that then a lot of what she says afterwards is just common sense... that gets twisted back into "So medicate them as early as possible"... and the self aggrandising, patronising crap at the end just cements Webberly as being a dangerous woman!

Trans children exist and they need our help = blatant emotional blackmail

OldCrone · 24/07/2019 07:24

Healthcare professionals needing to learn about gender identity in order to best help their patients can turn to the numerous, excellent, research papers and guidelines that have been published in more recent years.

I clicked on the links at the end of this paragraph in the hope that they would explain what is meant by 'gender identity'. They don't. They are just waffle about how bodies should be modified to fit society's prescribed gender roles.

GirlDownUnder · 24/07/2019 07:28

I can't read this

Forgotthebins · 24/07/2019 07:31

Also "numerous, excellent, research papers" is not the same thing as a body of evidence leading to diagnostic and treatment protocols. A handful of research papers doesn't justify a preference for a specific course of treatment, it just starts to mark out the ground for further, larger scale research.

OldCrone · 24/07/2019 07:39

A few assumptions made and a few lies (children don't need medical intervention, then why did you prescribe puberty blockers to an 11/12year old?)

Webberley's argument seems to be that children who have started puberty are no longer children, they're adolescents. I think most of us would consider an 11 year old to be a child, as does the law.

TinaBarrow · 24/07/2019 07:47

"your own gender journey" FFS

OhHolyJesus · 24/07/2019 07:50

And excellent research papers that are not peer-reviewed are not excellent, that's just your opinion.

Excellent relationships with therapists, doctors,...how do you know they are excellent? You sat behind your computer and dished our hormones, you and your husband Dr Webberley, were disciplined by the GMC, you have no business making assumptions about whether someone has an excellent relationship or not.

I really want this challenged...where Piers Morgan when you need him?

MangoesAreMyFavourite · 24/07/2019 07:59

They can choose to have intervention to allow them the puberty that matches their gender identity,

Bollocks to this! The only thing they get is a shrivelled up reproductive system of the sex they are; coupled with the visual secondary sex characteristics of the opposite sex.

This does NOT equate to puberty of the opposite sex.

Also, there are only 2 options, not a pick and mix choice of 72 gender identities.

OldCrone · 24/07/2019 08:16

I'd really like Webberley to define what she means by 'gender identity', 'gender incongruent', 'gender variant' and 'gender diverse'. Because when these terms are used about children it's all just stereotypes.

Webberley promotes and participates in the sterilisation of children who like the 'wrong' clothes and toys for their sex.

TheRedBarrows · 24/07/2019 08:26

“They can press pause on puberty, to allow them time to reflect on their future and plan their gender journey”

As I understand it ‘pressing pause’ has permanent effects.

Gwynfluff · 24/07/2019 09:26

It’s very full of doctorly euphemisms. I’m surprised she’s not mentioning ‘nethers’ and ‘waterworks’.

I also note that it’s common for girls to start puberty from 9 onwards. Is she really classifying children at this age as ‘adolescents’?

However, I agree young people feeling dysphoric and questioning of their identity should have good access to supportive services. This does not mean access to medication though but talking therapies and support. Many children and adolescents question their identity - it’s a normal part of moving into and through adolescence. Many of these young people become profoundly anxious and depressed and self harm. It really isn’t an exceptional thing that children with sex dysphoria/ gender questioning experience.

As the current opinion seems to be that you could never ‘understand’ the lived experience of these young people unless you’ve been one or parented one. I’ll note I’ve had a child with mental health difficulties who I paid for several months of counselling, then did a 4 months wait for CAMHS and then another 12 weeks to be passed from the nurse to the psychiatrist. The current model is that GPs can’t prescribe antidepressants at all to under 18s (must be a specialist) and that talking therapy has the best evidence base and must be tried first. I think we should see the treatment of trans identifying young people in the same way. Though, of course, I don’t want any young person to have a huge waiting list.

happydappy2 · 24/07/2019 09:37

I'm not sure I believe there are trans children....many children are confused and bewildered but they need to go through puberty to mature properly-only then are they grown up enough to make decisions about altering their bodies.

I wish the term 'trans child' had never been invented.

OldCrone · 24/07/2019 09:46

I agree, happydappy2. To a pre-pubescent child, whether you are a boy or a girl just means that there are some arbitrary things that you are allowed/encouraged to do or not do - stereotypes. Such a child has no idea about the realities of what it means to have a body which is one sex or the other in terms of sexual function and reproduction.

A child cannot make an informed choice to lose all future sexual and reproductive function when they are too young to understand what this really means.

FormerMediocreMale · 24/07/2019 09:47

Same old bollocks

Unsupported trans children and adolescents have higher rates of mental health issues. A significant proportion hurt themselves and, in the worst cases, even take their own lives.

The vast majority are suffering from trauma so of course they have mental health issues and they need help to work through these issues. Many are also autistic.

PBs make them more likely to want to hurt themselves.

This letter is a very patronising attempt by a discredited doctor to discredit Kirsty. We know the webberlys have no shame so not surprising. I will take comfort in the fact her business was hopefully impacted significantly in order for her to write this rubbish. Hopefully that means more people are questioning the pros and cons of PBs.

VickyEadie · 24/07/2019 10:02

They are just waffle about how bodies should be modified to fit society's prescribed gender roles.

This. It's all about forcing people to accept current 'gender' role prescriptions.

We've noted before that it's almost impossible to find a schoolgirl who doesn't have long hair these days, because that's 'what girls have'. Short hair = boy.

DpWm · 24/07/2019 10:04

They can choose to have intervention to allow them the puberty that matches their gender identity, rather than have their bodies masculinise or feminise, potentially setting them at a disadvantage for the rest of their lives

How can a doctor get away with spewing out such lies?
If their "gender identity" is one of the opposite sex, they will never go through puberty of the opposite sex. Not even close!
A person with a penis will never shed their uterus tissue and bleed for days every fucking month and a person with a vagina will never ejaculate!
FGS. What a load of crap.
This lying by TRAs really makes me livid.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 24/07/2019 11:02

How can a doctor get away with spewing out such lies?

telling anyone that they can change sex is a lie.

Science and medicine should not support liars or individual's delusions.

The whole thing is totally insane and the Webberley's are a dangerous disgrace.

Yeahnahyeah · 24/07/2019 11:04

I think we should get rid of the word 'dysphoric'
It's what any girl feels.

OhHolyJesus · 24/07/2019 15:50

How about 'body dysmorphia', I had that as a teen. I would get up at 6am in secret to do my make up and I would often start from scratch 4 or 5 tones until I was satisfied my spots were covered in time for school. Anyone can have body dysmorphia, whether it is related to your body as a teenage girl or teenage boy. Why anyone would encourage anyone, let alone a child, that they were born in the wrong body is beyond me.

GirlDownUnder · 24/07/2019 16:08

Why anyone would encourage anyone, let alone a child, that they were born in the wrong body is beyond me.

I don't know. It's not a simple answer I guess.

For you Thanks because your experience sounds relentless.

OhHolyJesus · 24/07/2019 16:27

Thanks Girl, it's fine I got over it, I was pretty hot by the time I hit 18! Grin I still don't let my husband touch my face but I got over my body dysmorphia in my 20s when I had some therapy.

I feel so much for teenagers who are struggling with so much already and for even younger kids - 8 year olds in California on puberty blockers - before they even have naturally producing hormones they have synthetic drugs in their systems fighting against what is natural - all because of this madness that is queer theory and some highly suspect characters who are pushing this along for personal, political or financial gain.

Makes me so worried and sorry for these poor kids, I just want to cuddle them and keep them from harm.

GirlDownUnder · 24/07/2019 16:45

I just want to cuddle them and keep them from harm.

Ha! Me you too. I've never been maternal enough to want my own, but I always want to look after the littlies. (And kick an arsehole in the nuts!)

You sound strong and sorted and experienced - so perfect to teach. I hope you do.

DodoPatrol · 24/07/2019 16:55

They can press pause on puberty, to allow them time to reflect on their future and plan their gender journey

Or:
They can press pause on puberty, to prevent them from becoming mature enough to make a sensible adult decision

It's bad enough expecting long-term planning, including future sexual and reproductive health, from an 18 or 25 year old. It's absolutely incredible that they expect it of a distressed pre-pubertal child.

SunsetBeetch · 24/07/2019 18:16

Written evidence from Mermaids, October 2018

This is highly alarming! Only 10% of the families on my caseload were 'mermaids' families. Mermaids should not get to dictate what happens to all children presenting at gender services...
t.co/tHJX9PiKkj

And they wish to do away with psychologists and psychotherapists in gender clinics!

data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/women-and-equalities-committee/health-and-social-care-and-lgbt-communities/written/91159.html

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