Wikipedia definitions of Woman and Transwoman

[Badgerwood]

This has seriously annoyed me, wikipedia can't unilaterally decide to redefine things based on a minority opinion, the articles should be based on facts! Both articles locked for editting, if enough people complain they'll have to change it back? I think these are new edits but the protection makes me feel like it's at least semi-official.

Fortunately, Badgerwood, UK law supersedes the corrupted joke that Wikipedia can be sometimes.

UK Equality Act 2010 defines the two sexes thus:

Man is a male of any age

Woman is a female of any age.

[Also, reputable dictionaries described woman as an adult human female]

Wikipedia can be ignored in this instance since it has been corrupted by those with vested interest.

I understand why they have locked it, they have likely had real problems with people changing it constantly for ideological reasons.

I understand why they have locked it, they have likely had real problems with people changing it constantly for ideological reasons

Why didn’t they lock it the other way then

The ‘just about every English dictionary ever’ dictionary

(Not aimed at you goose...i know you Are not responsible for wiki...unless of course you are! You’re not are you?)

Wiki are woke. I used to give them donations (and the Guardian) but they can both go whistle now.

Nope, I would be a lot richer if I was responsible for Wiki.

I have read some of the talk sections on certain entries where I had some expertise, and I think they do go to a fair bit of effort to follow the rules they have around what to include and say.

One thing to keep in mind is that they don't really make any unique choices or reason things through independently. They are only allowed to talk about what is the expert consensus on a topic. They can talk about different viewpoints if there is controversy, but they aren't trying to decide which is right. So what they print on a topic like this is going to reflect what you find in other sources.

But it's useful to look at the talk page if you are wondering, it might specifically address how it got to be the way it is now. Sometimes IIRC they get locked but it isn't necessarily the intent to keep it as it is, they've just decided there needs to be a different process for editing.

Yes, they've locked it with the ridiculous addition "Some women are trans" - which would be accurate if they meant some women identify as men - but they don't.

Honestly though, I'm surprised it's taken them this long.

I read something last year on twitter - TRAs were plotting to remove radical feminist's pages, and add transwomen. They've written to the online dictionaries too - I saw evidence of that a while back. So far the dictionaries aren't having any of it - because you can't just change the meaning of words by wishing it. But eventually, they may persuade the dictionaries bofs that TWAW is common belief now, and thus the definition of woman should be changed.

Wikipedia is run by similar men as twitter, IME - and infiltrated by TRA.

The discernment of an infant's sex was, until recently, almost universally considered an observation or recognition of an inherent aspect of a baby.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_assignment

Well, um, .....yeah.

I can't make head nor tail of the discussion page - I'm not that knowledgeable on Wikipedia editing.

Seems to be arguing about the photo being changed.

I've just had a look at the talk for the Woman entry, there is quite a lengthy discussion on the inclusion of trans women.

The whole first bit is about the image, the discussion of trans women is shortly after that.

They are difficult to read, they are a bit like reading a thread of a discussion and there is a fair bit of discussion of the rules around entries and stuff. I didn't wade through it all as I am on my way out, so I didn't see what led up to freezing the entry.

But generally, wiki is always going to be reflective, content changes when peoples ideas change.

But eventually, they may persuade the dictionaries bofs that TWAW is common belief now, and thus the definition of woman should be changed

This

Just got to the trans bit - they wanted to remove the word "female"

We must be thankful for small mercies - female is still in there for now.

.

Ooh. We had a thread on this before. I needed wine to get through the wiki talk pages.

I no longer donate to Wikipedia based on that experience.

I read something last year on twitter - TRAs were plotting to remove radical feminist's pages, and add transwomen.

Yes, that secret facebook group. They discussed - and had started - changing the page about feminist icons, substituting TW and libfems for any of the old-school feminist activists.

I can't remember the name of the academic involved, they were making life hell for adult human female academics in the same university.

Was it that Kennedy person from Goldsmiths?

Natasha Kennedy?

And is that the same one who "co-writes" papers with their old "male" name??

that would be the fragrant Natacha Kennedy I believe, who moonlights as Mark Kennedy and writes academic papers with themselves

the only time the ridiculous use of plural pronouns for a single person seems justified

ah, many x-posts!

Bernard - snap

for old time's sake I went and had a look at kennedy's myspace () profile pic

I remember some one posting it on here a couple of years ago and thinking I wonder how many female senior academics publicise pictures like that of themselves?

it was one of the firt things that made really start going

Damn my curious nature!

Went off for a look and all I can say is it’s probably a good thing that that chaise longue appears to upholstered in a wipe-clean material.

Just been to ‘Natacha’s’ twitter page. Another person who bases their idea of womanhood on Bernard Bresslaw wearing a dress in the Carry On ... movies.

Let's just call all these people out for what they are: that they are liars!

Every single one of us knows that men can never be women and that women can never be men.

No more pussyfooting around .. no more obfuscation!

#TimesUpForTheLiars

Ha! Well more fool me, my fault I now look like this

Thought I'd found an gotcha in their thinking (and maybe I have but I can't tell anymore!) in that a transwomen cannot, by wiki, definition be lesbian.

So..... I started here

Transwomen
Trans women may be heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual, asexual, or identify with other terms (such as queer).

• ah ha! So not a lesbian then, cool. But I'll just check homosexual (attracted to someone of the same sex, not gender)

Homosexual
The most common terms for homosexual people are lesbiann for females and gayy for males

• ah ha! Still not lesbian because female, so still sex not gender, cool. But I'll just check lesbian because I'm an idiot

Lesbian
A lesbian is a homosexual woman. The word lesbian is also used for women in relation to their sexual identity or sexual behavior, regardless of sexual orientation, or as an adjective to characterize or associate nouns with female homosexuality or same-sex attraction.

• ah ha! Still transwomen can still not claim to be lesbian.... oh wait, that's true only until you hit on "sexual identity" and we're back to the feelz

Sexual identity is how one thinks of oneself in terms of to whom one is romantically or sexually attracted.[1] Sexual identity may also refer to sexual orientation identity, which is when people identify or dis-identify with a sexual orientation or choose not to identify with a sexual orientation.[2] Sexual identity and sexual behavior are closely related to sexual orientation, but they are distinguished,[1] with identityy* referring to an individual's conception of themselves, behavior referring to actual sexual acts performed by the individual, and sexual orientation referring to romantic or sexual attractions toward persons of the opposite sexx* or genderr*, the same sex or gender, to both sexes or more than one gender, or to no one.

Sorry, probably a de-rail but I was just curious and maybe hopeful.